Neighbour wants tree cut down

[HimalyanSilverBirch]

Hello,

I'd appreciate some thoughts on a dispute with my neighbour.

I have a silver birch in my garden that is next to the boundary.

My neighbour wants us to cut this down because they don't like the mess caused by falling seeds/leaves and because of the risk the roots may cause their newly laid (and presumably very expensive) patio which is right next to the boundary.

For reference we are in a conservation area and the removal of the tree would require planning permission as the diameter is over 7.5cm at a height of 1.5m (though only just). The tree trunk is thus relatively slender and the height is roughly that of a two story house but the canopy is not large.

Unfortunately, the conversion got quite heated/ugly (and ended up with them throwing their sweepings over the fence).

I'll admit I don't want to lose the tree as it is really lovely, but having a look on google birches do have shallow roots that can cause problems to patios.

So where I am at is that I'm loathe to cut down the tree but equally I'm conscious about potential damage to the neighbours property that I might become liable for (the fact you have to sweep up leaves I don't believe to be relevant).

It's also probably worth mentioning that if the roots were a problem I'm unsure why this wasn't raised by the professionals who installed the patio.

As a final point they said they had to declare the tree on their house insurance so potentially the motivation here is the impact on the premium (the tree was in situ when they bought the property).

I don't want to fall out with neighbours (though that ship might have sailed) so what next?

I looked at the council website and they don't engage re: private tree disputes.

So I'm a bit unsure of what to do next and am I BU by not agreeing to cut down the tree.

Has anybody been in a similar situation?

Not the snow queen variety.

It's much smaller- I posted a description above.

Yes if you look at the site it explains that, advises you get a tree surgeon to do it but at the end of the day you can't just decide to move into your neighbours property below ground or above ground. They do have rights.

Honestly it's not that big.

There's not much (anything) that could be cut off.

If I could somehow prune it enough to make a difference I'd be happy to do that.

The problem is the tree is about 10cm from the boundary fence.

To stop it shedding in their garden is impossible because even if you cut down half the canopy (and the tree survived that) the wind would blow the seeds across anyway.

Afaik the seeds are only an issue for a few weeks of the year. Outside that shedding is minimal.

I am the owner of approximately 400 Birch trees. They fall regularly because they have a very shallow root ball. The root balls are honestly tiny compared to most other trees. It’s more likely to fall and crash onto their patio than to damage it from below.

According to a solicitors site on line it is the law of nuisance.

Well that's encouraging.

Yes if you look at the site it explains that, advises you get a tree surgeon to do it but at the end of the day you can't just decide to move into your neighbours property below ground or above ground. They do have rights.

Yes I appreciate that which is why I'm trying to be balanced.

The thing is the tree isn't causing any structural issues and given the variety I think it's unlikely it ever would.

I don't think they can force me to remove the tree on the basis of trespass if no damage to a being done - but as I said above I may be wrong about this.

Landscape architect here. Contact your local councils tree officer for advice. ALL trees within a conservation area receive legal protection as if they are TPO’ed. You would need planning permission to fell and it would have to be justified. Regarding damage to the patio, it is normal to provide a specification and a construction methodology to prevent either the tree being harmed by the patio or vice versa. If they dis-regarded the potential interaction of the tree-patio & built it anyway, you would not be liable, because you did not build the patio in that location. If they were to sue anyone, it would have to be their own builder.
Hope this helps & you don’t take down tree. I love silver birches.

Very interesting- thank you

That's super helpful advice. Thank you.

I'll definitely contact the council.

Silver Birches are beautiful and vital for native wildlife. Do not cut it down.

I definitely agree about the small root ball. We have silver birches in the woodland and many of them fall over due to the soil structure and winds and there's nothing to them underneath. They're very flimsy things.

I'd get a camera though. Some people despise trees and will do strange things to them given half a chance.

Is this true even if there's a TPO on the tree?

Don't cut down your tree, really. You really don't have to and as others have mentioned the council are unlikely to grant planning to fell it anyway.

I think your neighbors are being extremely unpleasant and trying to frighten you into removing a tree there really seems to be no grounds to remove. Personally I would ignore them, poor you for living next to them!

The tree is relatively small and it was there when they bought the house, and their surveyor and the landscaper who did their patio didn’t raise it as an issue. They sound very rude, so I would go with the conservation area explanation - once the tree is established you can’t cut it down because it’s subject to a preservation order. You can offer to cut overhanging branches and from the sound of it, they’re just petty enough to keep throwing the sweepings over your fence, which you’ll just have to deal with. Let them get on with it, it’s your tree - don’t be bullied into cutting it down.

Thanks for the explanation OP - seems your tree is fine (for now) the real problem (in the UK) is paving over outside spaces. It's rife in my little town; for unknown reasons, except for "low maintenance garden" explanations.

Just as top and trim urban trees within seasons is important - my main thing is to lift at least 1 slab a year and grow plants in that space instead.

It really helps the water table and curtails overloading our archaic water infrastucture system too.

7.5cm in diameter/1.5m in height? That tree is tiny @HimalyanSilverBirch, I'm guessing those measurements are wrong,

Ah, silver birch. My great hay-fever foe. Really annoying tree in that respect, and I have two in my garden, boo hoo.

These trees live only 30-40 years, but they do grow pretty fast, and then easily drop branches big and small in wind.

(Ours have a tpo on them so can only be removed with permission. )

Anyway @HimalyanSilverBirch my advice would be to trim it often, annually in the early spring to keep it small, which will keep it stronger, and will keep the root reach smaller.

People who wait 6,7 years before getting the tree surgeon out and then asking him to lop the top half off are doing the tree or themselves no favours. The tree has grown its big roots in that time anyway, and a huge chop makes it go into shock and throw up huge vertical new branches even faster.

If you want to keep the tree tell the neighbour you're happy to have it trimmed annually to keep the roots in check.

Your neighbours sound like idiots. It's ia shame that a patio built after a tree has been planted, and becomes established, gets priority. For conservation it should be the other way around - protect the tree, not the patio!

When we moved into our house (not the UK) our neighbours proudly informed us they's chopped down loads of trees in their back garden that used to overshadow our house. it's actually been so hot the last few years those trees would have provided very welcome shade...have your neighbours considered that?

I did (calmly) explain I couldn't cut down the tree (even if I wanted to) as it would need planning permission and to get permission I'd need reasonable grounds.

That went down like a lead ballon.

I then said if the tree is cut down anyone responsible risks being subject to a hefty fine.

That resulted in them losing the plot and accusing them of planning to cut down the tree (ironic as their last shouty words were "that tree is coming down" with an accompanying pointy finger).

I said no, I was explaining I did not want to be fined which is why I was stating the issue of the planning permission.

It was really hard to remain civil (but I did) and I'll admit trying hard not to pull this face when they told me to look at the seeds on the ground and justify why that was acceptable (for reference we have to sweep leaves on our drive from another - nice - neighbours tree and just accept it for what it is - you know that thing called nature).

The truth is they didn't want a conversation. They just wanted me to say yes I'll cut down the tree and I didn't want to commit to that.

Anyway I think contacting the council is a good next step and getting some advice (and potentially they might agree to speak with neighbours).

To clarify that's not the tree dimensions.

That's the specifications for a tree needing planing to be felled - if it's truck is over 7.5cm at a height of 1.5m.

At 1.5m the trunk is over this diameter but not by much.

As posted above there's nothing really to trim. The canopy is really small.

If I could find a compromise I really would.

Perhaps not, but you are trying to placate your neighbours, so I am referring to a future plan of an annual trim in the early spring.

My neighbour has a birch tree next to the boundary. I hate it. Every day the insides of my windows are coated in seeds. They get in my bath, my bed, my food. It's an absolute menace and I want it cut down. My neighbour seems oblivious with the plague her tree inflicts on other people. I'd poison the bloody thing with copper nails if I could get near enough. Just a perspective from someone like your neighbour here. Not everyone loves your birch tree.