Was this ok for my therapist to say?

[HypervigilenceSucks]

I had a therapy session for complex grief after my mum has passed away. Felt comfortable with the therapist, all good and felt like she understood my pov. Essentially I grew up being fostered by another family member but my mum was a big part of my life. She does therapy with a lot of people with adoption or fostering family structures.

Therapist observed that I possibly feel I lost my mum early on in my life, and yes I do. She was talking about ambiguous grief, and "how it can be even worse for birth mums or children who were adopted without ever knowing each other, how they lose each other but then wonder when walking down the street if that could be their mum/ child"

Now I totally understand what she was saying and I agree with her, I think she was using that example to explain ambiguous grief.

But was that just another way of saying, oh well others are worse off?

The other thing was when I said how guilty I feel at my mum's death, that I fucked up by trusting what the GP had said originally (there was a mistake) the therapist nodded. Was that just conversational body language or was she in her head thinking, wow what a shit daughter this person is?

She did say (and seemed genuine) that I had done what I could, and done a lot, and sometimes unfortunately we trust somebody and they get it wrong, and I beat myself up and we can work on that.

Honestly I didn't get a bad vibe from her at all, she seemed empathetic and very nice and I didn't think she was trying to minimise my feelings or anything.

I am very wary as have had a predatory (male, though) therapist before years ago as a young person.

Am I just nitpicking due to hypervigilence and anxiety?

Or am I trying to rationalise red flags here?

Because you want her to be an important person in your improving mental health.

Because you maybe are wary of breaking down barriers with female caregivers as a result of the issues you are trying to address.

Because the therapeutic relationship leaves you vulnerable and you want to protect it and you from unhelpful negativity that might be easily resolved.

Because it's worth exploring why you feel this way about these two incidents that appear potentially slightly clumsy at worst, but have obviously had quite a profound effect on you.

There are many reasons that might bring you back to your main concerns naturally.

Either way, surely it's worth devoting at least a small portion of one session to addressing it?

You’re trying to rush ahead with the meaty heavy stuff too quickly. You need to slow down and build a strong trusting relationship with the therapist first, so that when you do get to all the hard, deep parts you feel as safe, open and relaxed as possible.

It’s literally the opposite of wasting time, getting to know the therapist! It’s vital for the success of future sessions.

Slow down.

@Sensibletrousers interesting way of looking at it, thank you.

All my grief and loss and guilt spill out of me. I can't slow down, I need to talk about them. Hence going to a professional.

I realise the value in going slowly, but once I got in the therapy room it just all erupted out of me.

I was in tears after about five minutes. Is that weird?

It did feel cathartic afterwards and I felt lighter. Just as I say, hypervigilant.

I didn't vote because I don't think it can ever be unreasonable to be asking these questions when you're starting out with a therapist, but my feeling based on what you wrote is that you're overthinking her responses and projecting interpretations of them on to her. Under the circumstances, it would be surprising if you were not feeling extremely sensitive, and if this was your first encounter with her, then it goes without saying that there will be things you (both) didn't quite 'read' correctly in what the other said. As a pp said, not all therapists are good and perhaps you'll have to try a few before finding the right one, but if you need support urgently then personally I would give it another session at least.

I think a pp has put this more eloquently than I'm going to, but I find with my own therapist (who I really like and trust) that the safe space she gives me enables me to make sense of things that have been a mystery or an intransigent problem for many, many years. That's true whether we have a conversation or whether she sits in silence while I blurt stuff, or whether the magic doesn't start until after I've left the room - every session is different. I've tried therapy before and never really clicked with anyone previously, but when it works, it really works, and suddenly how you have related to everyone and everything untangles and becomes more amenable to improvement. But it takes some time to have that trust and make progress, and even now, I oscillate between thinking I'll probably stop with her soon and thinking I may be in therapy forever (and I think all of that's completely normal btw). It's complicated, but in short I think one session is enough to know if the therapist is wrong for you, but not enough to know if they are right, so if you liked her but have doubts, then I think that's probably par for the course and worth another try at least.

Whatever you decide, I really hope things improve for you soon. I'm sorry about the loss of your mother.

I already understand why I am the way I am - I don't need it to be explained to me in the therapy room, I just need to heal it somehow

Sorry, I cross posted with you. But surely this is a real life example of the kind of scenario you want help with? So by exploring this instance of hypervigilance, you might find it easier to address similar situations triggering the same response when they arise in future.

I was in tears after about five minutes. Is that weird?

Not at all weird.

You're doing brilliantly already.

If it's helpful - look at this as part of the work.

How you're feeling right now, your doubts and fears and frustrations – this is you healing. It won't feel like it – things often feel worse before they feel better – but you're doing it, right here and right now.

There is no normal when it comes to human emotions!

You can do both in a session, and often the topic will go off in odd directions but that is the beauty of good therapy. You could bring your hyper vigilance up at the beginning of your next session (and I think you should), and 10 mins later you could be digging into previously uncharted territory!

I am similar to you in that I am very self aware, know all my triggers and all my traumas. But the danger is to intellectualise and expect the healing process to be a linear A-Z process.

Your healing won’t be logical, chronological or linear. More like a rollercoaster with highs, lows and dark bits - none of it is a waste of time, especially the bits that help the therapist build up a full picture of you (not just the traumatised parts!).

Relax, go with it and be patient.

I wonder if it is connected though. You've entered therapy because you're mourning this terrible loss of a mother who wasn't properly present. Now you find yourself questioning the authenticity of your counsellor and whether she fully understands you and can be trusted. Could there be a parallel here?

You've chosen to start a thread asking strangers for their opinions on her, rather than asking her directly what she meant by what she said. Perhaps you're feeling as though you don't trust your own instincts about her? or perhaps you feel that bringing up your true feelings to her directly would cause too much conflict or might destroy your relationship?

Perhaps these patterns of relating sounds familiar to you, either with your mum or with other people?

I'm very sorry for your loss x Sometimes in therapy, what comes up can feel quite unexpected.

Without wanting to derail the thread – my goodness, this is the best side of Mumsnet, and one I've not seen in a while.

You've got some great support and advice, here, OP, and it doesn't show up so wonderfully here often.

Testament to your honesty and humanity. Good for you.

Working through how you feel about and relate to your therapist in the sessions is part of your deep healing. You have hypervigilance and other difficult reactions from your past that affect how you relate to your therapist in the here and now. As you work through this with them you will experience different patterns of reactions and resolution to issues than you experienced in childhood which helps to create new neural pathways so that you don't always go down the old well worn ones.

Couple of things, hope I haven't missed anything when reading; if so I apologise:

First, does this therapist know that you've experienced abusive therapy in the past? If she doesn't, then sharing that with her (if you feel able), and explaining how that may influence your need to protect yourself in this relationship, might help her understand what's going on in your head in session, and perhaps adapt the way she works to help you access therapy despite these difficulties. Abusive mental health treatment can leave you in a very difficult position, where the people you need to ask for help are those who are most likely to make your feel wary, and I think it can be difficult for mental health professionals to work out what's going on with you if they don't know that you've had those experiences.

Secondly, one of the best therapists (for me) that I've seen had a bit of a tendency to put her foot in it occasionally — phrase things in a way that could potentially be taken totally wrong, pick awkward moments to bring stuff up — but actually, it worked really well.

Once I knew the therapist well enough to trust her, I would just entirely turn off my filter for the whole session. So if she said something that could be taken in a good way or a really awful way, made a facial expression I couldn't interpret (I'm autistic, which probably played a part, too), or said something I didn't like, that thought would come straight out of my mouth. She would clarify, or we might have a brief laugh together about how something she'd said could've been taken to mean something really inappropriate or awful, or I might talk through my thought processes of analysing what I thought her likely intended meaning was and why, or some other short conversation.

Not necessarily long deep conversations about The Relationship, more like a quick interrogation of the meaning of something that was just said or done, which is something you don't really get to do much outside of therapy. I think that feeling able to just go "Hang on a minute, stop, I want to check with you about that thing you said" when I was feeling confused or hypervigilant or paranoid, and get explanations, reassurances, or an exploration of my reactions, was pretty valuable to me, and helped me deal with at least some of my (largely justifiable) mistrust of mental health professionals as a group.

Brilliant post 💐

Definitely check out with the therapist as pp have advised. It sounds like she was nodding in encouragement to continue exploring your feelings, but it can be tricky to convey that is what you are doing rather than agreeing with someone’s fears. Having had a bad experience with a previous therapist is bound to make you feel wary. If you build enough trust, hopefully you can talk to this therapist about the previous breach of trust so that she can support you.

Agree with this. The second thing is definitely in your own mind. It seems like you're projecting your own worries and regrets onto your therapist when all the therapist was doing was listening to you and trying to make you feel relaxed and heard.

I would talk to your therapist about this next time particularly if you like working with her and want to continue.

Bereavement counselling is hard. I didn't do any after my mother died, but did after my father died. I didn't see a specialist grief counsellor opting instead to see someone more generalised. Often the direction of my therapy and the discussions was shaped by experiences you describe in your OP. Grief takes time to work through, it isn't linear, nor can we anticipate how the conversation will go. Personally, I would be grateful for a session like this as it will enable you to explore this further.

I wish you well and am so very sorry for your loss.

I agree the nodding is likely to be a nod of encouragement, probably meaning something like "I'm taking this in, please go on".

It's not the worst way of communicating that sentiment… I saw a therapist for a couple of sessions who did it using an "mmm" sound. Not at points where there was a natural pause in my speech, which would be normal and fine — no, this was at regular, 5–second intervals, whenever I was speaking. Quite loudly.

At first, it was just a bit odd, really. I'd get briefly distracted when it happened, and lose my train of thought a little more with each additional "mmm". But by the end of the first session, I couldn't think straight, I was starting to anticipate each "mmm" with increasing agitation, and I felt like I must be invisible or inaudible. Next session, I tried explaining the difficulties it was causing me, and asked her if she'd be willing to try not to do it. Despite her initial efforts, though, the 5-second-interval "mmm" rapidly returned, and I had no option but to end the therapy and find someone else.

But hey, it's a learning experience, and my potential therapist checklist now includes "No Rhythmic Hummers".

I mainly posted this because it's one of my favourite light-hearted "Batshittest Therapists I Have Seen" stories… I suppose it's not particularly relevant, except maybe to say that it's true that sometimes, therapist and client really aren't the best fit for each other, and it's okay to move on, even if it's for a reason other people might not understand — but also that you can talk to the therapist about things that you're finding difficult about the sessions, no matter what they are. Even humming 😐

I just want to echo what pp have said. It's early days in your therapy, and it takes time to trust someone, even if you're paying them.
At your next session, I expect your therapist will ask you how your week has been (or similar) and you can say "I've been thinking about something you said..."
Also, the nodding may just be "I'm listening, go on".
Good luck OP.

Nodding just means listening op
It sounds to me like you need more than just a therapist. Sounds like you could use EMDR therapy and cognitive behaviour therapy on top of it.

You say you know why you are the way you are. And that you understand why. But I think you've only scratched the surface. There is a lot of healing that needs to take place, but you won't find that merely with talking therapy especially with the walls and defence system you have built around you .

Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for. Ps blaming yourself for your mum dying is not beneficial to no one. Opposite actually. Yes,hindsight is 20/20 vision. But there is nothing you could have done and definitely not something you could do now. Sometimes things just happen. Beating yourself up is not helping you. It is merely crippling you. You need to talk to the therapist. And write down what you want and what you need and what you expect. And that you are filled with so many emotions that you need addressed. She might assume that taking it slow is how to go. And if you don't adress that, than how will you grow. Talk to her.