Strikes strikes strikes

[Rainyrunway]

So many people are striking at the moment. We're personally affected and having to change plans or appointments by 3 over the next few days (nurses, teachers and engineers at a theme park!) I'm not making a judgement call here btw just putting a personal perspective. Anyone have any idea how or when they'll all end? Obviously they can't go on forever but it feels like if one group reaches a settlement, another group starts.

The point is that people may be increasingly looking to cut their tax burden because their costs are increasing, not because there is a sudden lack of interest in paying taxes.

People who earn a lot of money have always tried to pay their way out of paying taxes. It's why tax lawyers are some of highest paid lawyers out there. Their job is literally to creatively find the loopholes in the tax rules faster than the tax authorities can close them.

Yes, I know, but the accountant was claiming that people were increasingly falling over themselves to reduce their tax burden. Perhaps because their costs have increased?

I think the single biggest difference teachers and lecturers can make is to get their pupils to vote in the future, to plan ahead for the next election. And to care about politics. As long as the young don’t all vote, every party will keep trying to please the grey vote.
If we are trying to build a future for the young, the young need to be as involved as possible. On all levels by voting and going into politics.

I do wonder with this apparent shift to the right that we have been seeing across Europe that people are just less willing to contribute? Or the disenfranchisement that people feel with regards to the political process. Everything is going to pot and people are wondering what exactly it is they are paying for. Either you need to believe in the concept of the welfare state as a principle or you need to feel it benefits you somehow and that either way there is value for money there. Otherwise you won't be happy - certianly if you don't trust the people you are effectively giving your money to.

Also, in times of scarce resource it's human nature to become more selfish. Easy to be generous when you have plenty, a lot harder when you yourself are struggling. So, to an extent, I do agree with you there.

No, most of my clients are local people, pensioners, tradesmen, small shops, boarding houses, etc. I'm based in a village, not a city centre. For context, none of my clients earn over £150k, and only maybe 10% earn over the £50k higher rate threshold. The vast majority are basic rate taxpayers so wouldn't be regarded as "well off" at all. Most need an accountant to comply with the filing requirements re tax returns, company accounts, etc. rather than wanting an accountant to zeroise their tax bills, but they don't really seem to care about the compliance aspect anymore and more and more are wanting to reduce their tax, even those who can easily afford it.

As for the recent cost of living crisis, nothing has really changed in the last 20 years as far as client requirements go. It was around 20 years ago that I started seeing the trend for people tripping up over themselves to reduce their taxes and it's grown pretty evenly over the years since then, so certainly no sudden "blip" in the last year or two due to inflation, etc.

I do wonder with this apparent shift to the right

Have you seen the latest English polling data?

In that case I was mistaken. And then yes, it's probably to do with the cost of living.

You said, taxguru and I quote "I've never seen so many clients falling over themselves to cut their tax bills"

And now you're saying actually it's not an unusual amount.

Yes, I agree with @Nordicrain I tend to get the impression that it's more about being disenfranchised as opposed to being unable to afford it. As you say, people wonder what their tax is being spent on, they don't agree with what it's spent on, they see others "taking" all the time whether it's benefits, free bus passes, winter fuel allowances, then of course the vast wastage in some areas of the public services. As we've seen in other threads on here in the past week or so, people seem to now have the wrong idea that they've "paid in" so they expect more out. The whole ethos of tax seems to have been lost over the past couple of decades.

Apparently, there's £46 billion in unpaid tax in the UK. If we tackled even a small proportion of this, then we could fund schools, hospitals and other services properly.

I'm a teacher and an NEU member, I'm on strike today. I do believe the strikes will go on until we get some kind of settlement- we're gaining momentum not losing it, and it's possible/probable we'll be joined by other education unions in the autumn.

It may not be a perfect deal, but it will have to be a lot better than the one we were offered before Easter for members to even consider accepting it. More people (and a higher percentage) voted to reject the deal than voted in the indicative ballot in autumn.

Education is in crisis, and more and more teachers are leaving. If the strikes don't work, in the next 5 years, I genuinely forsee major changes in education as we know it, because specialist teachers won't exist any more.

To me, it doesn't make any difference whether parents support us or not (although it does make me sad if parents don't care about the education of their children, just the next day's childcare). It's about the future of the children I teach, and I want to do as much as I can for them.

As a more general trend across the western world there has been increased sympathies with parties, ideas and people who would be classed as rightwing (Trump, Brexit, the increased support of rightwing parties in Germany, France, even in the traditionally socialist nordic countries).

I think people would be far happier to see a greater proportion of their taxes going to a strong local government rather than pissed up the wall centrally…
I don’t mind my local hospital and authority spending my hard earned money on the old and disabled and poor kids locally. It is about removal… not feeling part of the process. Not seeing where it goes. Not being able to look your local politician in the eye and believing them.

Let's not forget that Liz Truss's tax cuts crashed the economy and made everyone poorer.

I don't think people will be as eager for tax cuts as they were, in the light of that impact.

I said it's been a steady growth over the past 20 years or so. I also said they don't have an accountant specifically to save money but because of the compliance/submission requirements. Others, maybe you, insinuated that it was the "well off" who used accountants to save money which isn't the case for my practice. Smaller clients are mainly motivated to have an accountant to avoid fines for not filing returns and accounts. That's been the case for 40 years. But over the past 20, more of them are now objecting to their tax bills and more motivated to reduce them. I hope that explains it!

And strikes are meant to be disruptive. A sharp reminder of how things will be without basic public services.

Disenfranchisement and lack of trust in the government essentially then.

I pay rather a lot of tax and generally don't mind (I am in the wellfare state as a desirable political objective camp). But even so to see the utter waste and incompetency the government has exercised in spending the country's tax money makes me cringe a little harder when I see the deductions on my pay cheque. I live in an area that is not too far from some serious deprivation too, which makes me even more annoyed about it all. I am paying all this money so politicians can get a subsidised meal as they snooze through parliamentary sessions, or give their mates contracts for useless PPE, but the kids down the road from me are going to school hungry every day.

Yes. That's the Tory rhetoric that is being widely disseminated. That striking public sector workers have been radicalised by Unions and used as political tools by a 'leftist' socialist agenda.

Which a) ignores the fact many workers in the public sector are highly educated, intelligent professionals who deeply understand what is at play here and not getting whipped up into hysteria that they'll get epic pay rises.

B) the Unions in the nurses strike for instance were manipulated by the government into agreeing that pay talks would have a prerequisite that any offer by the government would be presented to it's members for vote. Otherwise the government would not get around the table.

And those Unions then called off planned strikes in March to talk to the government, hoping for a decent offer. And then presented a desirory offer to their members while heavily leaning on their members to accept the offer.

The RCN went on a campaign to urge their members to accept the deal as a final offer. Unite said don't accept, this is bollocks basically. Unison actually informed their members to accept or receive no other offer and be worse off in the long run.

So Unison members shat themselves and voted to accept as advised by their union. RCN members were also scared and a small minority voted to take their chances and reject.

Now.. the RCN is coming out in full force in regards to strikes with no derogations etc. Massive contrast to the pressure they put on their members before and during the vote to accept or reject.

And Steve Barclay and the lying, gaslighting Tory government say Unison accepted the pay offer as it was 'fair and reasonable' when Unison members were explicitly told accept this or nothing. In wanting to make RCN members look like greedy assholes.

And RCN members were also being 'urged' to accept this 'final offer'. Then when a small majority of RCN members refused to be inintimidated and voted reject so further strike action is planned, Steve Barclay sought to take the RCN to court.

Initially hoping to stop the entire strike this weekend, and directly intimated, bullied and threatened every nurse planning to strike by telling them their nursing registration could be at risk if they strike. More recently hoping to stop the strike on Tuesday.

Lying, gaslighting, bullying Tory bastards.

And in the meantime whipping up all the narrative in the Tory media that nurses/Dr's are greedy when there is just no money to pay them sob and if HCPs go on strike, they have blood on their hands and don't care about their patients but just care about money.

I am f-ing enraged by it. And if anything, Steve Barclay and this government in their behavior around NHS strikes have probably 'radicalised' more workers into striking.

And if anything, Steve Barclay and this government in their behavior around NHS strikes have probably 'radicalised' more workers into striking.

Same in education. Since the government made us a shitty pay offer, it was overwhelmingly rejected by all teaching unions, and the three who weren't striking are now balloting for strike action.

@taxguru - all small time buy to let landlords need to submit tax returns? Right?

Lots of boomers have second properties. Boomers as a generation are super worried about the state of the NHS and their care. It is anxiety because they don’t feel safe. So they want to acquire even more capital to pay to feel safe? And maybe even to conserve for the next generation that they are also worried about.
When really the solution is to educate the next generation so they are healthy and productive.

Absolutely. If this government can afford to write off millions in covid loans they can fund education properly. They just don't want to.

To be fair we are all paying for the covid spend....

We'll all be paying for the lack of investment in education.

But especially our kids.

I am not saying this isn't a worthy place to direct spending. I am saying that public spending has to come from somewhere at the end of the day. We can see that with the covid funding splurge. So it's not as simple as saying well they can spend on x so they can the can spend on y and z and x and q and all the rest.

Incorrect and incoherent Tory rhetoric intended to paint the strikes as something they are not.