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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sudan and getting UK citizens out

47 replies

UnsureSchool32 · 26/04/2023 09:11

There seems to be one RAF jet going back and forth from Cyprus. Since there are a number of RAF jets in Cyprus I can’t see while there is a ceasefire that they can’t send more than one? It seems it’s re-fuelling then heading back.

granted it’s a complicated system on the ground, and people are struggling to get to the airstrip so maybe the numbers are not there for more than one jet?

OP posts:
Neededanewuserhandle · 26/04/2023 09:13

Perhaps you should phone the RAF or the government and offer your expertise.

FuckeryOmbudsman · 26/04/2023 09:14

Perhaps you should also ring the airport and tell then they're allocating their safe landing slots wrongly.

Newyeardietstartstomorrow · 26/04/2023 09:18

They aren't even filling the plane that are coming out, from what I understand from Breakfast Telly, so there seem little point in multiple teams risking their lives. Probably more than one RAF plane looks too much like a military presence.

TheVanguardSix · 26/04/2023 09:29

The ceasefire is barely holding OP. Ceasefires, up to this current point, have totally failed. This current one is hanging on by a thread. It makes evacuation totally precarious. It is impossible to move people safely out of an area of conflict especially when ceasefires are not holding.

Oliotya · 26/04/2023 09:33

I have a friend (not british) who escaped south sudan yesterday. Other countries with far fewer resources are managing it. The British government isn't really trying IMO. I imagine it's because of which British citizens are stuck...

Oliotya · 26/04/2023 09:36

Oliotya · 26/04/2023 09:33

I have a friend (not british) who escaped south sudan yesterday. Other countries with far fewer resources are managing it. The British government isn't really trying IMO. I imagine it's because of which British citizens are stuck...

Not sure why I typed "south", but you get my point.

Newyeardietstartstomorrow · 26/04/2023 10:00

@Oliotya I'm pleased your friend is safe.

Original poster
UnsureSchool32 · 26/04/2023 10:18

Glad your friend is safe. Why do people have to be arsey on here, I’m just trying to fathom what’s going on.

I just hope the people get out/home soon. I’ve read of a young family trapped out there with their 6 year old.

OP posts:
Original poster
UnsureSchool32 · 26/04/2023 10:19

@Oliotya i get your point, 100% wrong ‘type’ of citizen.

OP posts:
notimagain · 26/04/2023 11:06

UnsureSchool32 · 26/04/2023 09:11

There seems to be one RAF jet going back and forth from Cyprus. Since there are a number of RAF jets in Cyprus I can’t see while there is a ceasefire that they can’t send more than one? It seems it’s re-fuelling then heading back.

granted it’s a complicated system on the ground, and people are struggling to get to the airstrip so maybe the numbers are not there for more than one jet?

Last I heard there were at least two RAF aircraft going into/out of Sudan involved (a C-130 and an A-400).

The Uk doesn’t have unlimited assets ready to deploy at a moments notice.

As others have said and as you’ve mentioned the logistics, Air Traffic and force protection side of this operation will be fairly complex and formidable, so I would cut HMG the RAF a bit of slack.

I certainly wouldn’t expect to see an armada of RAF aircraft involved.

sashagabadon · 26/04/2023 11:08

it sounds a very complicated situation and there are about 5000 people. Other countries have a much smaller amount in the hundreds so clearly much easier to co-ordinate.

Sarahconnor1 · 26/04/2023 11:10

A key issue seems to be getting people safely to where the planes are landing.

To help with that we would need boots on the ground which will not and can not happen.

Justmyviews · 26/04/2023 11:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

DivorcingEU · 26/04/2023 11:25

Years ago (about 20) I was a young Brit living in a "developing" country. I had a conversation with some oil expats who were in their 50s with teens living there. We were talking about leaving the country in a political emergency and I said something about the consulate/embassy, they laughed and said that you can't rely on the UK government to help. They had a significant amount of money (think it was $10k) in a safe at home specifically to help them get out if there was a political emergency because in their experience the Brits were never the first to be rescued.

Since then I've noticed that they had a point.

Coffeeandbourbons · 26/04/2023 11:26

Neededanewuserhandle · 26/04/2023 09:13

Perhaps you should phone the RAF or the government and offer your expertise.

Love it

Whammyyammy · 26/04/2023 11:30

I wonder how many of these uk expats that don't pay tax to the UK govt are expecting to be taken out of Sudan on RAF aircraft funded by UK tax payers....

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 11:33

Whammyyammy · 26/04/2023 11:30

I wonder how many of these uk expats that don't pay tax to the UK govt are expecting to be taken out of Sudan on RAF aircraft funded by UK tax payers....

Personally I think the government should charge an evacuation tax for all people who live abroad that may need evacuating, or at least have some sort of insurance scheme. I don't see why you should be able to live out of the country, not pay any taxes yet still get the protection of the UK government.

These operations are very expensive and I'm not sure why lower paid people in the UK should have to fund evactuation programs for people working abroad who may get large salaries and significant benefits for working in foreign countries but pay no UK tax. There could be exemptions for people who are UK domiciled.

The US has a tax principle based on citizenship that you are liable to pay tax anywhere you work even if outside the US. So there is some justification that while you are working abroad you should be entitled to US protection FOC. This isn't so for the UK.

There always seems to be a call of "the UK is not doing enough" when this sort of stuff happens. Well we can always do more and we can always do better. The question is who should pay for it.

Fififafa · 26/04/2023 11:34

@Oliotya Yep, definitely the wrong sort of British citizen for this government

Oliotya · 26/04/2023 11:35

Whammyyammy · 26/04/2023 11:30

I wonder how many of these uk expats that don't pay tax to the UK govt are expecting to be taken out of Sudan on RAF aircraft funded by UK tax payers....

Well luckily for all of us, citizenship doesn't have an expiration date.

FangsForTheMemory · 26/04/2023 11:36

I doubt ANY detail about the evacuation is being released to the press, OP. It’s not a garden party they’re organising.

Sarahconnor1 · 26/04/2023 11:38

Fififafa · 26/04/2023 11:34

@Oliotya Yep, definitely the wrong sort of British citizen for this government

That is massively unfair when there are RAF personnel risking their lives doing evacuation flights as I type.

notimagain · 26/04/2023 11:58

@GasPanic

I don't see why you should be able to live out of the country, not pay any taxes yet still get the protection of the UK government.

Just as a general point of info it's perfectly possible as a Brit to be non-resident in the UK but still be liable to UK taxes (and possibly social charges) on some/all of your income.

Some of us have the joys of a local tax return and also a UK HMRC tax return to fill in every year...

notimagain · 26/04/2023 12:02

Just to add:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad

"If you’re not a UK resident, you don’t usually pay UK tax on your pension. But you might have to pay tax in the country you live in. There are a few exceptions - for example, UK civil service pensions will always be taxed in the UK."

There are other examples.

Tax when you get a pension

Income Tax on payments from pensions, tax-free allowances, how you pay tax on pensions.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad

Precipice · 26/04/2023 12:20

Whammyyammy · 26/04/2023 11:30

I wonder how many of these uk expats that don't pay tax to the UK govt are expecting to be taken out of Sudan on RAF aircraft funded by UK tax payers....

What an appalling attitude.

It's the UK government that decides that it's not going to tax its citizens in certain situations. These citizens are not doing anything wrong in living abroad. Holding a citizenship gives you some obligations towards the state you have the citizenship in and it makes the state whose citizenship you hold have obligations toward you.

Do you also think UK citizens who happen to earn below the income tax threshold and happen to be abroad should be denied consular and governmental help? They only pay VAT, but what if they're almost only buying non-VAT items?

Blackbyrd · 26/04/2023 12:20

Fififafa · 26/04/2023 11:34

@Oliotya Yep, definitely the wrong sort of British citizen for this government

There are people of colour holding three of the four great offices of state in this government. Lazy accusation on your part, and highly insulting to those in the Armed Forces seeking to evacuate British citizens

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