“I got sorta out of sorts with a buddy of yours…

[Righthandman]

…He looked at me like he thought I was stupid. I’m not stupid.”

AIBU to wonder whether Alexander Hamilton was autistic, or had ADHD, or both? Or at least, Lin Manuel Miranda’s version of him?

Hi Hercules!

I think you’re most likely right that Miranda is aiming to write a country bumpkin and immigrant trying to progress and has no thought about neurodiversity. I think the results of that are really interesting though.

I’m not sure about his social instincts for instance- the way he gets into arguments and holds grudges with a sort of absolute, black and white logic. And his sense of insult when criticised is quite over-developed. And his crazy work ethic- the federalist papers for example…

That’s interesting about Ainsley :)

Ooh interesting. That would really change the story.

Lin’s performance is somehow hesitant. A bit vulnerable and wanting to fit in. Which makes sense for an immigrant in lots of ways but does also work for someone who is an outsider because of neurodiversity. What appeared to be a more confident arrogance would also work to be honest.

@Singleandproud I’ve read some of it- back when the musical first came out but before I saw a performance. It’s looong but enjoyable. Hamilton comes across as a pretty intense but really intriguing person.

@Simplelife1 I think it was a decent time to be a ND man if you didn’t have a learning disability because it was possible to be a self-made man through study- if you had a talent in thinking originally about law or government or finance or theology it was a great time for sharing ideas and making new systems.

I'm looking at your post like it's stupid, and you clearly don't think it is.

He was also a young man that (like many at the time) had suffered incredible levels of rejection and trauma. Which would also lead to a survivor mentality and determination to survive at all costs without the necessary social graces of someone who had been raised as a well todo young man at the time.

True, that’s a fair point @Singleandproud

I've read the biography the play was based on. There are huge differences..for a start, in the play Burr says he's a terrible shot. The exact opposite was true. There's a huge amount of backstory to the Maria Reynolds bit too and loads of other things. I think one of the cleverest bits of the play is the blending of Washington and Hamilton's voice in "one last time". There's historical controversy about who actually wrote that last speech. He took days to die during which time most of the key figures visited him. Anyway, point being, it would be hard enough to diagnose anything via creditable primary sources, let alone a line in a musical interpretation of a secondary source!!

I'd say Lin's performance, if tentative, is because he's nowhere near as good as most of the others. Creative genius yes, very funny in interviews but not so much as a performer.

It's just a bloody song...

Funnily enough, when I read your opening post, my thoughts were "Did I miss an explanation of what the chuff this is about?".

Again. People starting threads without explaining what they're on about. If people had an explanation surely it would open up the discussion more?

And why on earth is this in AIBU? Surely it should be in....well I just don't know do i?

@FarmGirl78 but everybody that can contribute to the thread will know what it's about from the title we don't need an explanation. If you don't recognize it as a quote from Hamilton then you are unlikely to be able to contribute to an analysis of it.

ND through history is quite an interesting thought though, although I feel strongly that we shouldnt diagnose (or homosexualise / trans) historical figures from what we know of them now, unless they wrote their own first hand accounts.

I would imagine being ND was actually a lot easier to deal with back then, less continuous stimuli from light and noises and coping strategies for difficulties would be more effective. More time in nature, a more routine, physical lifestyle.

I strongly think that those with Adhd were probably our first explorers, those who felt the urge to go further and take risks or sat around listening to stories bored whist twiddling a stick in their hands and creating fire.

But I could still think "Ooh that looks interesting.... I'll have to read up on that/look it up/watch it".

As it is, a friend in the US has recommended Hamilton so in this case it really would have piqued my interest more and drawn me in.

Why is this stupid feckin post in aibu?
And you need to educate yourself about music, scan of words/music, and how poetry, art and literature use words to convey meaning
Sometimes, a message is mor complex or subtle then 'the wheels of the bus go roundxand round'

I cannot tell you how much I loathe this stupid, offensive thread. Hamilton didn’t punch the bursar- it’s a play on Burr, Sir. You can’t armchair-diagnose historical characters, even fictionalised versions of them. Punching people isn’t a basis on which to diagnose autism- what a horrible suggestion. “Having a diagnosis” and “being autistic” are not synonymous. It goes on and on.

He in no way sounds autistic. What a stretch. The bursar treated him like he was stupid because he was poor so he punched him. That’s an exhibition is grade A masculine toxicity right there.

He got out of sorts with the bursar is surely just old English. He’s so autistic he was known widely as a playboy?!

the OP thinks they are being awfully clever and enigmatic
But actually, the sentence does make sense, so @Righthandman looks v foolish

But the OP and some pps are soooooo insightful! And their ability to assess and diagnose a condition 200 years later based on a work of fiction is truely amaxing!
We should be nominating them for a Nobel prize or something
Despite the fact that they are pedaling their shit theories and 'oh so incisive' views in AIBU rather than a more appropriate thread

I’m sorry @FarmGirl78, I wasn’t meaning to be exclusive or enigmatic, I was just typing briefly because I was procrastinating on making dinner last night.

The basic idea I was musing on was, is it possible that Alexander Hamilton, the historical figure, was autistic or had ADHD or was otherwise neurodiverse? And separately, because the fictional character from the musical is a separate issue, is the character neurodiverse?

I picked those lines not because I don’t understand them or because of the word play or because I think ND = violence but because the scene they describe, asking for something a bit unusual but really quite reasonable, being utterly misunderstood and denied, and then feeling a great deal of frustration and anger at the failed communication, at being thought ‘stupid’, is something I have come to recognise in myself as a symptom of my neurodiversity. It could also be explained just by being an immigrant and an outsider or it could be amplified by that.

Something about Lin’s hesitant performance- perhaps purely because, as a PP said, he’s not as good a performer- increases the effect of making the character seem ND to me.

I know it's de rigueur to diagnose based on relating to things which 99% of people do or feel, but which are depicted as being unusual in some way - but this thread takes the biscuit.

The assessment and diagnosis of ND conditions is a scientific process. Reducing it down to song lyrics - chosen for their rhyming pattern and lyricism - and the fact that a character who is being othered felt othered, is pretty insulting.

He got out of sorts with the bursar is surely just old English

It's 20th century American.

I really don't understand what's to feel insulted about @fitzwilliamdarcy. Are you suggesting that the song lyrics were chosen only for rhyme and lyricism and are not intended to convey meaning at all? Are you suggesting that we can't discover meaning in music and literature irrespective of the writers' intentions?

The assessment and diagnosis of ND conditions is actually a lot more subjective than the psychologists and researchers wish was the case, cf the tendency to diagnose women as anything but.