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Child on a part time timetable at school. What are the legalities here?

34 replies

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 14:48

One of my boys has ADHD and ODD, I have applied for an EHCP.

Secondary school are awful, understaffed, unsupportive and shite.
The next school over is not much better.

He is currently on a part time timetable and he feels significantly less stressed.

I would like this to continue for the forseeable and use his DLA to pay for a maths and English tutor.

Im seeing the SENCO on Wednesday for another fruitless meeting and wondered where I stood legally with this?

Thank you.

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Weatherwax134 · 24/04/2023 14:58

Unfortunately, the view of the DfE is that part-time timetables should be a short term solution whilst a long term plan is made: Reduced Timetables: Advice for parents (southampton.gov.uk)
A successful application for an EHCP will help overall, because the school will need to work with you to implement strategies supporting your child. However, it is unlikely that a part-time timetable will be considered the first choice as a long term plan sorry.

Reduced Timetables: Advice for parents

A timetable is considered reduced when the total hours provided for your child are less than those provided to the majority of their peers in school. We would not ordinarily expect a parent to request a reduced timetable, they are generally one of a ra...

https://www.southampton.gov.uk/schools-learning/support-education/reduced-timetables-parent-advice/

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 16:31

That's helpful to know ahead of my meeting on Wednesday, thank you.

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FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 16:36

I've just read our local authority one which says the same - short term plan.

But it does not say what would happen after the 6 weeks.

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FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 16:39

On its own a part time timetable should be short term, aimed at reintegration. After this pupils should either be in school full time or alternative arrangements made as well or instead of part time school.

The only exception is in a minority of cases where full-time education (not the same thing as full-time school and the scope of what is considered educational provision is far wider than many realise) in any form is not in the pupil’s best interests. Since no other alternatives have been tried/considered it is unlikely DS meets the high threshold would be met for that exception. Even then it should be regularly reviewed.

If DS is CSA and can’t attend school full time the LA have a statutory duty under s.19 of the Education Act 1996 to provide alternative arrangements as well or instead of to ensure DS still receives a suitable full time education. This could be in the form of home tuition, you wouldn’t have to pay for it.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/04/2023 16:40

You might want to talk things through with IPSEA - they're a charity offering free legal advice to parents of children with additional needs in England, and they have advice phonelines. Flowers

(IPSEA) Independent Provider of Special Education Advice

IPSEA offers independent legally based advice, support and training to help get the right education for children and young people with special educational needs and disabilities (SEND).

https://www.ipsea.org.uk

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 16:46

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 16:39

On its own a part time timetable should be short term, aimed at reintegration. After this pupils should either be in school full time or alternative arrangements made as well or instead of part time school.

The only exception is in a minority of cases where full-time education (not the same thing as full-time school and the scope of what is considered educational provision is far wider than many realise) in any form is not in the pupil’s best interests. Since no other alternatives have been tried/considered it is unlikely DS meets the high threshold would be met for that exception. Even then it should be regularly reviewed.

If DS is CSA and can’t attend school full time the LA have a statutory duty under s.19 of the Education Act 1996 to provide alternative arrangements as well or instead of to ensure DS still receives a suitable full time education. This could be in the form of home tuition, you wouldn’t have to pay for it.

Thank you.

When you say no alternatives have been tried/considered, what sort of alternatives might this be? Perhaps this is knowledge I need to be armed with prior to the meeting on Wednesday.

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FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 16:50

s.19 provision can be in many, many forms, for example, it could be home tuition, online tuition, at a hospital school, many LAs have centres they use, at an alternative provision, in the community…

The3Ls · 24/04/2023 17:19

Flexi schooling is your option. We got this cleared. Lots of helpful Facebook groups if you search.

The3Ls · 24/04/2023 17:20

Or a doctors note you may have to pay asking for reduced timetable much as an adult gets reduced duties on a sick note but it's shorter term too so Flexi school is a better option

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 18:44

Bloody hell I didn't know any of this.

So basically it IS possible for him to be on a a reduced time table if he is being otherwise educated away from school?

I just need to figure out the jargon and rules and work round that?

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FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 18:44

The3Ls · 24/04/2023 17:19

Flexi schooling is your option. We got this cleared. Lots of helpful Facebook groups if you search.

To search for these groups do I literally search flexi schooling or is it called something else?

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cansu · 24/04/2023 18:46

Ian be wring but I think the school can reflect flexi schooling. You can ask but they do not have to agree. Most do not agree.

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 18:47

The school doesn’t have to agree to flexi schooling and many schools, especially secondary schools, don’t/won’t agree, and if they do you would be responsible for DS’ education. Whereas if you go down s.19 provision route the LA retain responsibility for providing education, and if you get an EHCP that can include even more provision.

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 18:52

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 18:47

The school doesn’t have to agree to flexi schooling and many schools, especially secondary schools, don’t/won’t agree, and if they do you would be responsible for DS’ education. Whereas if you go down s.19 provision route the LA retain responsibility for providing education, and if you get an EHCP that can include even more provision.

So I can go down the section 19 route even without the EHCP in place?

I will appeal if declined, my worry is that long period of time in the interim. I just don't want him to suffer and likely get expelled and end up in a much worse position.

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HappyHourStartsNow · 24/04/2023 18:55

Don’t pay for it yourself, school or LA should pay.

Your child is entitled to a full time education or equivalent that they are able to access. Your DS doesn’t have this and he can’t access full time in school because his needs aren’t being met.

It might be part-time in school and tuition outside, it might also include a day at alternative provision where he does Forest school or outdoor sports, to help build his confidence.

My DD is fully funded by s19 at the moment, until we get the EHCP, as she could barely attend school. She has three days on a forest school nurture programme now as well as three 1-1 tuition sessions a week.

If you look up your local SENDIASS service (it’s a free service) and phone them then they will advise you step by step,

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 18:56

Provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996 is completely separate to EHCPs. The provision isn’t as comprehensive as provision that can be secured via EHCPs but it still a suitable, full time education.

Is the LA sticking to the EHCP timescales.

Be careful with SENDIASS, some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better.

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 18:58

Section 19 (of the Children Act presumably?) seems to discuss childcare under the age of 8, in a child care setting rather than schooling...

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FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 18:59

Ah education act - of course.

Thank you, back I go!

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Dinodigger · 24/04/2023 18:59

My son in year 5 has ADHD and ASD. He has an EHCP and is in school (independent SEN) part time and also has a personal tutor for 10 hours a week. This is paid for by the LEA. You could try and push for this too and not be out of pocket.

zoinkss · 24/04/2023 19:00

My middle one is awaiting assessment for ASD and ADHD and has been diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder and depression. She's pretty much house bound and has lost all her friends and external activities.

She's not been ft in school since early 2020 (now Yr11), after a huge delay the school finally accepted her psychiatric report and put flexible learning in place (one hour twice a week) and online 1-2-1 tuition.

She's not managed the on-site flexible learning but they school have arranged for two tutors for online learning doing 4hrs per week of maths and 4hrs of English, so it can be done.

The school also delayed the EHCP for over a year, now submitted and she's just had an unconditional offer for college doing a part course, and the college confirmed an EHCP is needed and will support an ten mission if her current application and any subsequent appeal is rejected.

My advice is to have emails for all correspondence and make sure you follow up any meetings with emails to confirm your inserts of what was discussed.

Also, don't be afraid to chase up for responses and push your own agenda I.e. requesting online learning/flexible learning etc. (our school are truly awful at coming back on questions and if I was as bad at my job as they are at theirs, I would've been sacked long ago).

Good luck, it's like a ft job staying on top of this kind of thing and retaining your composure in the face of a completely outdated and unfit for purpose educational approach.

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 19:05

zoinkss · 24/04/2023 19:00

My middle one is awaiting assessment for ASD and ADHD and has been diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder and depression. She's pretty much house bound and has lost all her friends and external activities.

She's not been ft in school since early 2020 (now Yr11), after a huge delay the school finally accepted her psychiatric report and put flexible learning in place (one hour twice a week) and online 1-2-1 tuition.

She's not managed the on-site flexible learning but they school have arranged for two tutors for online learning doing 4hrs per week of maths and 4hrs of English, so it can be done.

The school also delayed the EHCP for over a year, now submitted and she's just had an unconditional offer for college doing a part course, and the college confirmed an EHCP is needed and will support an ten mission if her current application and any subsequent appeal is rejected.

My advice is to have emails for all correspondence and make sure you follow up any meetings with emails to confirm your inserts of what was discussed.

Also, don't be afraid to chase up for responses and push your own agenda I.e. requesting online learning/flexible learning etc. (our school are truly awful at coming back on questions and if I was as bad at my job as they are at theirs, I would've been sacked long ago).

Good luck, it's like a ft job staying on top of this kind of thing and retaining your composure in the face of a completely outdated and unfit for purpose educational approach.

That’s not a suitable, full time education. You could have forced the LA to provide more. However, s.19 provision only applies to CSA pupils, it won’t apply post 16 so the only way to force provision then is via an EHCP.

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 19:06

This has been incredibly helpful.

Im reading section 19 very carefully and made notes.

I did not realise they could support learning in the form of tutors without an EHCP.
Although I expect that is a fight in itself, it's good to know it's an option even if it's a small chance.

One thing I have learned is backing up conversations with follow up emails - thank
you for this advice.

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zoinkss · 24/04/2023 19:07

It's not suitable for a child that's capable of undertaking a ft time education and could cope with additional hours.

However, for my child it's absolutely appropriate

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 19:10

zoinkss · 24/04/2023 19:07

It's not suitable for a child that's capable of undertaking a ft time education and could cope with additional hours.

However, for my child it's absolutely appropriate

The scope of what is educational provision is far wider than many realise, it doesn’t have to be what is thought of as traditional education. For example, it could be therapeutic provision, subscriptions or resources, a budget, a mentor.

Obviously there are some that can’t access a full time education in any form but if DD can access 8 hours of E&M tuition it is likely she will be able to access more of other types of educational provision.

FloatingBean · 24/04/2023 19:13

FourBoysAndAFeline · 24/04/2023 19:06

This has been incredibly helpful.

Im reading section 19 very carefully and made notes.

I did not realise they could support learning in the form of tutors without an EHCP.
Although I expect that is a fight in itself, it's good to know it's an option even if it's a small chance.

One thing I have learned is backing up conversations with follow up emails - thank
you for this advice.

Unfortunately you often have to fight for provision. You can email the LA’s Director of Children’s Services informing them of the situation and requesting provision. Provision should begin once it becomes clear the pupil will miss 15 days, the days don’t need to have already been missed or consecutive. Then if the LA fail to provide it email again threatening judicial review. If that fails contact SOSSEN for help with a pre action letter.