To think this rule with working hours is a little unfair

[Kennedydavenport]

I work in the afternoons, we start work at 1:50 where we receive our handover but are only paid from 2pm. We were reminded in a recent meeting that we must not be arriving any later than 1:45 ish to be ready to receive handover at 1:50 (though it doesn't always start on time).
Yeah it's only 10/15 mins a day but that's almost an hour a week, 47 hours a year if you take out holidays.
I'm paid hourly too at £11 an hour, not salaried. Over £500 a year unpaid.
Am I just being petty?
We also have 30 mins unpaid taken out of our wages but never, ever have I had a full 30 mins break, honestly about 3 times in 4 months.

I wonder if some of this is so no-one is late, instead of tackling the latecomers themselves.

Nobody can log on for me, it's individual private passwords
I've worked since I was 13 and I've never been in a job where you can walk in the door at your start time and it not be late
WFH now but I still need my 5-10 mins to log in to approx 8 different things and also my phone line needs a log in

@Kennedydavenport I have professional experience of this and it is a big legal issue because your employer may be paying less than the minimum wage. Eg you are paid £11 per hour for an 8 hour shift = £88, but actually work 8.75 hours between the early start and no break so they are actually paying you 88/8.75 = £10.06 per hour which is less than the minimum wage of £10.42 (assuming you are aged over 23). You can report to the government here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints. Good luck 💐

I think your handover is part of your work and required by your employer so it should be paid. Similar to Sports Direct who got in trouble for paying staff in their warehouse under the minimum wage because they required them to go through security checks at the end of every shift which sometimes took 30mins.

Are you in a union?

You might be willing to accept it, but if you were being paid minimum wage your employer would be breaking the law.

Logging onto work systems IS part of your job, and so you should be paid for it. If it takes 15 minutes of prep time from arriving to being able to start work, you should be paid for it and it should form part of your shift.

@VeggieSalsa I'm salaried but for 40hrs a week so my shift is say 10-6, but I have to start at 10am and no later
I'm min wage but it wouldn't bring me below because of commission payments I think
TBH I wouldn't argue it anyway because it's not something I would win and I don't want to risk my job
If I changed jobs it would be exactly the same

@Kyse if you're willing to accept it and carry on as you are, far enough, but they still can't force you to do it.

I dunno how it would work
I mean my other systems I could avoid logging on until my first call but I still need my phone system
Trying not to be too outing but if you're late by even a minute without a reason (traffic etc) 3 times in a month then you're not entitled to your commission which is why I leave extra time so I'm never late (commission can be £1200pm)

If you are paid minimum wage I'd look at how many hours you are then expected to work over the year. If it takes you below minimum wage then they can't do it.

Speak to ACAS for advice.

Ok if it's a matter of £1200 extra per month I'd be willing to do it. Mine was a 22k a year job at the time so not worth the extra time and effort

But logging in and waiting for their systems to start is part of your job so you should be paid for that time. They have chosen not to pay you for the first 10 minutes of your day. My working day starts when I turn the computer on.

Doing a handover is work and they must pay you for it

End of story

I wouldn't accept that, tbh.

If they want you ready to start taking calls at 9am, but it takes ten minutes to get logged in, then your start time should be 8.50am and they should be paying you from then.

OP - YANBU. Handovers are part of your working day and you should be paid for them. We had this issue at my previous job where management wanted us on the shop floor and ready to start work at 9.50am, despite us not being contracted to start until 10am.

We argued it with the help of an excellent union rep and our contracts got changed so that we were paid from 9.45am going forward.

There's no management on the scene at night (residential care home) but you get the same smokers popping out for a good 5 minutes every hour, leaving just one person(usually me) on the floor.
You could argue that I can take my break too, but if a buzzer goes off, someone needs the toilet, someone wants a drink etc. Then no it's not really a break when everyone else is out smoking.
This was brought up in a recent meeting and it was said that we are to take allocated breaks at separate times, but this has not happened. I've never, ever been told once in 4 months 'you can take your 30 min break now.' never.
On the very rare occasion I've had the full 30 mins (and that's always been 30 mins broken up, not interrupted) it's because we had extra staff or the home was quiet.
Not worth it for £11 an hour, so I'm leaving asap.

Also because of my commute I have to leave at half 12 to be there for 1:45. I usually end up getting there at 1:35 but leave early because of traffic etc.
So that's my day gone really, it's not worth it.

I used to do that as a call centre manager. I logged all my team in ready for their start time and team briefings were 45 mins into their shift so never unpaid. Other managers hated me, but everyone wanted to be on my team.

As a care home manager I pay my team to come 15 mins before they are needed out in the service. It's just included in their working hours.
The departing shift can then leave on time having provided handover. I think that's what's fair, but I know lots of places that don't pay handover.

This.

I know of an employer that got in the shit with HMRC for this as it meant she was paying her staff less than minimum wage because of the enforced additional hours.

Totally unacceptable- you are working, you should be paid. Contact your union asap! Best of luck!

It's a culture thing that I thought was entirely normal in my last hospital. Paid from 7pm-7am but handover often went on til nearer half past because people were late then you had more patients overnight then getting changed took ages because the changing room was a mile away and it takes 10 minutes to get to the front door so I was never in the car until 8am. No one took breaks on nightshift because there was much less staff so couldnt really leave the floor as it wasnt safe so we just sat at the nurses station with a cup of tea so thats another 45 minutes unpaid. It was just universally accepted and they even criticised the domestics for getting 15 minutes changing time built in to the end of their shift plus being militant about breaks.

My new hospital I get paid 1930 until 0800 and everyone takes their breaks unless someone is actively deteriorating.

It seems like nothing but you are working a lot of extra hours over an annual basis and you deserve to be paid. Smokers take their smoke breaks so you take your breaks, if there are not enough staff on the floor to cover an individual break then your staffing levels are unsafe and need to be addressed. After handover can you not split who gets what break?

Join a trad union. Encourage your colleagues to do the same. Engage in collective’s action with your employer to recognise the handover time as paid work time.

Being 10-15min early for work, particularly where a handover is required, is acceptable.

In that case why isn’t it acceptable to just leave 10-15 minutes early?! It’s outrageous, taking advantage of employees and should be illegal. I would think it probably is. Who exactly are they working for during the handover? Themselves?

I think it's unbearably cheap for employers not to pay staff for their lunch break in the first place, and really poor management not to insist staff actually take their breaks.

Employers don’t usually pay people for their lunch breaks because they’re not working. That’s pretty universal. But they absolutely should be paying people when they are.

That's ridiculous. We are expected to be in handover for 7am or pm. But no compulsory arrival time.

@Cherrysoup no he's not right. He should be ready to work at 9pm.

This is highly illegal. They have to pay you for training and meetings. If they don’t pay you then you refuse to do it, and if they sack you then you claim unfair dismissal because they can’t sack you for refusing to work unpaid. You shouldn’t be enabling their illegal behaviour by going along with it!