Am I oblivious or standard!??!

[ThisOrThatOrNowt]

NC alert!

Really long background to the story here, which I won’t focus on as I’m trying to clear my head about just this point:

My exH (diagnosed by CMHT) has BPD with Vulnerable Narc traits. We’ve been separated for 4 years. My DD, 7, lives with me full time and I take her there every other weekend but stay there with her (she has autism and additional needs so can’t/won’t be left).

He has informed me I have “classic control issues” after I have had to send him written boundaries I won’t bend on anymore (verbalised these over the last couple of years but they are always ‘forgotten’ or argued with).

These boundaries asked for:

1. No more unexpected/uninvited ‘visits’ from him to my home.
2. No more shouting at me in front of our DD.
3. Every other weekend visits
4. He can call after school / before dinner each day (but never does) but I asked to not call after 5:30 as after dinner it’s homework/ bath/ bed etc. Pretty routine dinner / bedtime here as DD has a lot of ASC needs around these. Plus I work every evening after she’s in bed, apart from Saturdays.

Now, I know stating boundaries is perfectly acceptable. It’s taken a long time to get to here, where I can say “no”…never used to do this. The amount of awful behaviour from him over the last 11 years had worn me down totally.

But what I can’t grasp is whether or not I AM a control freak because I:

1. Make sure kiddo gets to school on time every day
2. Work from home when she’s at school (PT timetable)
3. Work every evening apart from Saturday after DD is in bed
4. Study for degree 4 evenings a week
5. Can happily agree to/ make changes to plans with friends and family though do make sure we’re usually home by teatime/bedtime as DD doesn’t sleep well, unless we’re away for a weekend with friends, obviously.

The thing I just don’t understand is this: if I don’t stick to day to day routines, nothing would get done: DD wouldn’t get to school, I wouldn’t work, I wouldn’t study, we wouldn’t go anywhere on our free time because that would mean making a ‘plan’ (in the loosest sense of the word!).

So without setting a routine in place everything goes tits up and nobody does anything.
But with a routine in place, that’s controlling behaviour?

YABU = You are controlling and that routine is mad

YANBU = It’s normal to have schedules when juggling work, study, little children, home life.

Thank you wise MN!!!!

I think YABU to even question any of this. This man is clearly a fucking tool, why are you allowing his nonsense to cause you to doubt yourself? It’s ridiculous. Stop.

And, honestly, four years of every other weekend with him is also ridiculous. Stop doing that, as well. If she can’t be left, then she can’t be left.

Does he work? Only being able to contact his dd between 3:30 and 5:30 each day is pretty unreasonable if so. Not sure it makes you a control freak though and I totally understand why you need boundaries.

No, he doesn’t work, hasn’t done for about 6 years. He’s alcoholic, too, unfortunately, another factor as he’s only “with it” for a few hours a day (4 at worst, 6 at best), gets up around 10:30 when we’re there, starts drinking about 5. So I’ve spent the past 8 years navigating that journey. I’ve been going to AlAnon for 2 years, but he hasn’t ever accessed AA. Has alcoholic fatty liver disease.
Its a big mess but I put my DD needs first and moved out, hoping he’d find life less stressful without us there (and so drink less). Long story short, it’s not any better, actually worse in a lot of ways. I’m very aware a court would likely allow unsupervised visits considering the decisions on this I read here. DD is more vocal about what she wants/needs now she’s older so I take on board that, too, and advocate for her the best I can, without alienating him (or her) from contact.

No, he doesn’t work, hasn’t done for about 6 years. He’s alcoholic, too, unfortunately, another factor as he’s only “with it” for a few hours a day (4 at worst, 6 at best), gets up around 10:30 when we’re there, starts drinking about 5. So I’ve spent the past 8 years navigating that journey. I’ve been going to AlAnon for 2 years, but he hasn’t ever accessed AA.

Nothing about this indicates that the court would agree unsupervised visits. Nothing. It doesn’t even sound like this man could be arsed to take you to court. If you’re worried about that, then speak to a solicitor.

Stop exposing your daughter (and yourself) to this. It’s neither normal nor healthy. Stop ‘navigating’ and take control.

I can’t fathom how someone as switched on an and motivated as you sound can seriously be questioning yourself over the accusations of this drunk, narc shithead. Actually yes I can, he’s an abusive twat, but let me tell you that your boundary setting, scheduling and work ethic is amazing and admirable and you should be proud of yourself.

Thank you for your replies and votes; it’s good to get the perspective.

Oh help me out if you’re reading this: have been doing alternate weekends since December (not staying overnight) and DD’s birthday falls on a weekend where we are here, in our home. Ex had arranged to go to his annual meet up with friends that weekend and wasn’t sure about going but it’s once a year so I said he should go and we’ll do a birthday party mid week instead.. spread it out, you know? He agreed and that was the plan. So I booked (at DDs request) a holiday cottage near a place she loves to go and my friend and their DD are going to meet us there. Haven’t seen them for a year due to distance. Now Ex has messaged to say he’s going to stay here for her birthday. What do I do? I’m panicking cos I know he’s going to be cross. I’ve paid up, got the tickets, DD is excited and so am I. He’s going to twist this up and mess with my head. Should I cancel the break? I don’t want to put DD in the middle and ask her “holiday or day with dad “ as I know she’ll be torn. I don’t want him to be there; he’s always said horrid things about my friends and has behaved hideously in front of them to the point they stopped visiting.
I’m worried. I don’t know what to say to him.

No don't cancel the break. Its not your problem that he changed his plans at the last minute. You can't spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells around him. Stop worrying about his reaction and don't try to manage him. His emotional outbursts are his problem.

Look up the Karpman Drama Triangle (Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer). Its typical of alcoholics and narc types to be caught up in the drama triangle - we don't have to volunteer to join them.

Just go OP. He had plans, you made a deal and then arrangements to mark the all ay social for DD- don’t spoil it now.

Well, I’ve offered all days prior to our break (after school) and the Monday after, too, but he’s being adamant that I tell him where we’re going as he wants to be there. I’ve said to DD that dad wants to see her on her birthday, and if she’d like that it’s ok to say so… it’s no problem. She said again that she’d like to do something separate on the Monday we’re back. I’ve told him this is her preference but he’s not budging. He says this is about “our daughter, not you seeing your friends” and similar comments.
This is getting a bit crazy, which is what I think he wants. Thanks for the triangle information, I’ve now read up on that.

I’m thinking I will just say I’m not arranging anything different, that this was arranged on DDs request and she’d prefer the Monday arrangement but an after school ‘do’ prior to the weekend is okay if more convenient for him.

I have no doubt DD will tell him where her birthday trip is going to be, when he asks, but she doesn’t know where we’ll be staying while we’re there. I’m not sharing that info.

He has form for “turning up” and expecting to be hosted regardless. Oddly, whenever I have arranged to do things with friends or family he intensifies his “our daughter” narrative.

He is oblivious / uncaring / amnesiac about prior abusive behaviour and ongoing alcoholic issues influencing the reason for our separation and will be dishing out the “poor me” cards everywhere, no doubt. This aspect doesn’t worry me, he can live his life as he wants and I don’t make any say in that at all.

I put down boundaries and I’m sticking to them but he’s pushing and pushing on this and I’m feeling very wobbly as I’m aware I need to be neutral with regards DD’s decision and don’t want him to say I’m influencing her. I’ve brought my DD up to know her feelings and needs are respected and valid…this has been a long journey due to her autism and I have worked hard on making sure she knows it’s okay to say what she needs/feels without worrying about upsetting me. She’s not spoiled, but I do listen to her, and she listens to me and respects decisions I make as her parent, as a result of this.

I think I just need to accept that he might turn up on her birthday at the place we’re going. If he does, I will be as calm as a cucumber and go with the flow, grey rock etc and not undermine him to DD in any way.

I spoke with my friend yesterday as she knows the history and how difficult things have become. I said I was worried about what might occur and she was lovely, very reassuring, and said if he does turn up any effect will be diluted as “we’ll all be there”. This helped a lot. I hate to put her in the middle.

Thank you for your replies, it has really helped get things down in writing and clear my head.

Good on you, stick to your guns!

Feeling pretty low and need to clear my head so I can finish work tonight.
I spoke to DD’s dad at the weekend to confirm his plans for birthday weekend. He’d not let me know what he planned on doing and I said again that there was the choice of tea-times after school beforehand or the Monday after and he said he’d have to do the Monday as he was clearly banned from attending (!).
He then went on to say that I’m not telling him enough about DDs days: what she’s happy about, not happy about, what she is thinking and doing and what we are doing when we’re here. I said I wasn’t happy doing that as it’s too much to ask... he wanted a report at least every other day. I said he can call any day after school/before dinner, and he could ask her herself, then she could share what she’s happy to share, the same she does with me. That wasn’t acceptable so I asked him what his proposals are. He said he wants to spend more time with us, for me to pick him up if me and DD are going out, for him to come to our house and spend time there with her. I said that wouldn’t work, we live separately for a reason and I’m not happy with that. He said everything’s always controlled by me. I regret now what I said next... that we could look at meeting at the local library on a Wednesday after school. It would just be for an hour and a half. He said that would be acceptable. I said, though, that DD and I would be leaving for home at 5. But he’s so manipulative he will push at this, I know. I feel as though I’ve made an already messy mess even worse.
He then said that as his pension is now up (he’s just turned 55 and has a SIPP) he can give some money each month (hasn’t paid any CM for four years) but, if he’s going to do that, what’s his return on that? That if he’s not getting anything from it he’ll take out a lump sum and just burn it. I’m thankful I was brave enough to say that I’ve never been with him for his money (he’s been on that soapbox for at least 8 years) and that if he wanted to put money in he’s welcome to but I don’t expect it and he can put it into an ISA for DD instead if he’d rather. He said that as I’d “taken her away” when she was 3 (true; I left due to his alcoholism and abusive nature) I’m denying him any opportunity to see DD. I was able to say that I’ve been bringing DD every weekend for the past four years and only recently has this reduced to every other. I said the every other weekend was working well (DD is more settled, for sure) and he said well it’s not for him. I said that DD is my priority and I put her first.
This is all rather muddled.
I just feel very bullied, I guess. That I’ve added unnecessary stress to both me and DD.
I am resolved, though, that I will speak to him this week on the phone and clarify that we are separated and that that’s not changing.
There is no court order or anything like that. I doubt he would instigate anything as it would cost him money, but he is spiteful so may surprise me.
I just want him to stop. I will feel stronger tomorrow, I know, it’s just right now I worry for the future.

Stop engaging with this man!!! Stop speaking to him, stop justifying yourself, stop pandering. Why are you still doing this?

People have said this over and over again and it doesn’t appear to be having an impact. It’s really frustrating.

The 5:30 cut off is a bit unreasonable, but the rest seems fine

@PousseyNotMoira Thank you for your stern message…I do have wobbles where I think I am everything horrid he’s ever said about me and your words have been on my mind!

I’ve taken on board everything people have said here, and made changes such as having as low contact as I can considering I have to face this man every other weekend. I’ve spoken to a DV charity and a solicitor and firmed up my understanding of my rights and responsibilities, and those of my daughter. I only respond to emails directly about weekend contact, and have ignored his massive essays on what a terrible person I am.

Anyway, I am due to meet him tomorrow for fortnightly contact and he’s likely to demand an answer to a question he put in one essay last week. He thinks he has a right to visit DD here, in my home. He doesn’t though, does he? Would my refusal look to a court like I was denying access?

Just to reiterate, DD doesn’t want to see him more than current arrangement. He doesn’t call her, either, in between visits.

Thank you.

He does not have a right to enter your home.

It sounds like he is escalating, in response to losing control over you. I think you should talk to Women's Aid, and look into the Freedom Programme.
You could also contact the local police and ask to speak to someone from the domestic abuse unit. They can put you on a priority list for in case he turns up at your home. If he does show up don't answer the door. Go upstairs and call the police.

Hello everyone. Since I last posted I have kept up low contact which has been really helpful. I’ve had some pretty awful emails from exDH and a couple of frightening contact meetings where he got really angry. Fortunately these were in public so he couldn’t escalate beyond vicious words and scary intimidation. He’s still drinking. Every other weekend I either let him know ( or sometimes he will email to ask ) where we’ll be if he wants to see our DD but he’s only turned up 50% of the time and is usually late so only sees her for four hours at most every other weekend as a result.
I haven’t done any court applications as I’m worried about what I read about outcomes in family courts but I have spoken to a solicitor who advised that I don’t have to do anything if he’s not. So kind of in limboland on that front.
Ive considered a contact centre as his hostility is directed at me and as such if I’m not around my DD might have better interactions with him. The difficulty there is she has autism and really struggles with / won’t attend new places and won’t talk to people she doesn’t know (and only a tiny bit to people she does know outside a very small group of people).
My current muddle is this: contact weekend is this weekend coming. He’s not asked where we will be yet and since his last tirade at me via email last week I’m really reluctant to contact him.
If he doesn’t ask, should I just send a text tomorrow to say we’re at the soft play centre and will be til 2pm and leave it at that? Or not do anything?
Reason I’m asking is I’m really aware that I don’t want to be accused of parental alienation if he did decide to go to court. My DD is totally ambivalent about seeing him. She never asks to see him, call him or anything even though I’ve let her know that is ok if she wants to. He still does not call her during the contact weekends.
Any advice would be really helpful. Thank you.

I would ignore absolutely everything he says.

Please do not ever initiate contact with this man. And, once again, stop engaging with his nonsense. There is no muddle.

If you feel aggressed/threatened during contact, then stop contact. Tell him why, in writing. Do not engage in any back and forth about it, just inform him that you will be ceasing contact due to his behaviour, and then detail his behaviour. If you need help with phrasing, we can help you draft something. Of he wants to resume contact, let him take you to court.

You have plenty of evidence to the contrary, should be decide to pursue the parental alienation route. But, I bet he won’t. I bet he does nothing.

@PousseyNotMoira @3luckystars Thank you for your advice; I’ve been thinking on it overnight. I have kept up the contact weekend so my DD has the opportunity to see her dad, so when she’s older she doesn’t have (or its minimised) the feeling of abandonment or not-good-enough. She’s been able to make memories of him being a good dad (occasions where he is engaged and interactive, fun to be around for her) but I admit this last year (since I put in those boundaries) I suspect she’s also made memories of him being an arse, not turning up, getting angry.

For me, this time has been eye opening. I think he’s only interested in the image of himself in the eyes of others: he is a victim in this because evil ol’ me has moved out and now he’s abandoned again. I do feel awful for the pain he must feel even though this would be pain for him not any feeling of what he has done (he has diagnosed BPD but I suspect covert narcissism from what I’ve been reading) but I feel much more pain for my DD to have had to experience this loss.

Also though I have always had this feeling of relief that I had the strength to move out, and stay moved out despite feeling so guilty: I didn’t and won’t crack!

I’ll not initiate contact this weekend; I’ll crack on with what we had planned and take it a day at a time.

Thank you.