Does anybody get to the top of government WITHOUT being a bully?

[Nimbostratus100]

So many of our top politicians are so aggressive, manipulative, deceitful, selfish and basically thuggish, all be it often in a refined and upper class way.

I cant really see how a normal, decent human being would ever hold their own with people like this, or get into positions over them

I am not surprised by the allegations of bullying in recent years. I have just assumes these people are all likely to be bullies. I am glad its being called out now, and maybe times are changing. But as things stand, AIBU to think if you are at the top of government, it almost goes without saying that you are likely to be a bully?

Honestly, since I entered the working world at 19, I've realised the only way to do really well is to 1) cope fine with being bullied 2) become a bully after your initiation.

I hate that I couldn't cope with it and never built the career.

I suppose there's a compromise - my bestie knows every pysch game in the book - she probably wrote the book - so she's been at director level for some time now.

I really wish I could and I sometimes wish I'd had parents who knew this and that they'd tried to toughen me up. But .i guess we can't know if it would have worked.

There is a world of difference between someone who is a bully and someone who is a leader who has a strong sense of what they want to achieve.

Bullies are often bullies because they don't have the skills to listen, influence, self reflect, etc.

Raab is clearly a nasty piece of work but even the Tories aren’t all like that. To the best of my knowledge, Jeremy Hunt is one of the good guys, and is well liked by both people on his own side and his opponents. The same is true of Labour’s Lisa Nandy & Rachel Reeves, who is also good friends with Rishi Sunak.

You can be robust, firm and effective without being a bully.

To be at the top in government you need to be both psychopathic and narcissistic. I don't think normal humans could deal with it. (However, the NZ PM seemed nice and normal! So maybe in other countries a PM can have some empathy and kindness. But in the UK, I think only a certain kind of person will rise to the top, and they lack most values I hold)....

He had it coming a long time. It's not like he had a personality transplant, these are issues (and allegations) that go back years.

Most politicians are much politer than Raab. He was incidentally sacked by the Foreign Office before entering politics which may explain his hostility to civil servants.

Jacinda Ardern? She was one of the most narcisstic and psychopathic types ariund recently and there's been a LOT of competition.

Raab is a very nasty piece of work.
HIS BEHAVIOUR WAS SHAMEFUL AND EVIL
GOOD RIDDANCE

This is so true.

I don't know what he did
but was it him who said he hadn't fully understood the importance of Dover to Calais passage post Brexit?

After dealing with local government officials and various political party representatives, my answer is no. Only bullies get anywhere in politics.

@Nimbostratus100 I agree I'm always suprised when people say a major politician seems 'nice' no way do you get anywhere in politics if you are honest and nice- very naive to think otherwise in my opinion.

I have a connection to Jacinda and she's a good person so she's definitely the odd one out on this theory.

Jeremy Hunt one of the good guys? Oh, my sweet summer child. People deliberately mispronounce his surname for very good reason.

What I find interesting about Raab is that he always used to have what seemed like a a nervous catch in his voice, like he wasnt breathing properly or lacked conviction. Noticeable during the covid period.
Noticed in today's interview that this has gone.
Wondering if he had a speech therapist or if he has just changed.
I havent particularly followed his career but I generally hold to the theory that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The thing is, if you are friends with a person, you aren't necessarily going to see what they are like in their career.

Until recently I was on very good terms with my local MP. But now he is climbing up the ranks of the party, it's all change.

there's difficulty over what bullying actually is in the Raab case, is there? That's mum's view, anyway! 😂

It seems like he was found to have not bullied any individual but had an abrasive and direct style. I’m not sure about this, if he was just extremely direct that is not necessarily bullying.

No no no.
The recent incarnation of the Conservative party have done this to you. It's definitely not true you need to be a bully to be at the top of your party.

Working backwards in time, I think Theresa May, David Cameron, Tony Blair and John Major were all categorically not bullies.

I think Rishi Sunak is also not a bully.

Please let's not normaluse this behaviour or make out "they are all the same". It's not true and it's damaging.

Alex Chalk is a very nice chap.

Another question I often ask - do you need to be dodgy to get into politics or does politics turn you dodgy?

I haven't looked at details but that certainly wouldn't be bullying in my book.

Rishi Sunak doesn't strike me as a bully, but then he's so rich he doesn't have to be.

I will amend my comment.
I would say that having power is a big test of maturity and character that not everyone rises to.

@thebellagio good question. I think at grassroots level people are trying to help and have the best intentions usually. As they climb deals are made, pay backs needed, compromises on their ideals/morals and by the time they reach the top probably not the same person any more. I know a few in local politics.....

That’s his claim. It’s not quite what the report found.

You can be direct without intimidating and humiliating your staff.

And it’s exactly like any ‘direct’ leadership was successful. He’s a complete fucking disaster wherever he goes.