To be sick of people saying everything should be means tested

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It's ignorant, ill-informed and shows a lack of consideration given to the costs and complexities. Just saying "x should be means tested" as if it's a magical answer is stupid.

@Thehonestbadger yes you are correct you can get some help with mortgage payments (interest) but it only kicks in after months and its a loan based on equity.
https://www.gov.uk/support-for-mortgage-interest

As for single people receiving same tax 'perks' as families I think they should. I'm not sure families should be 'rewarded' for having children or being married. I've not really considered what the tax 'threshold' should be. Maybe average wage?

I live in France where everything is based on your tax return, so things like winter fuel payments go to low income households rather than pensioners.

But many many countries means test everything which means there is more money for people who need it, and people who don’t aren’t unjustly enriched. I was living in New Zealand when this concept was first introduced in the 1980s and fully implemented in the 1990s and the naysayers said it was too complicated. Yes it takes a while to implement but once it’s done it’s done. (For the record I think the current way of administering child benefit in the uk and clawing back overpayments in tax returns is bonkers. I’m not aware of any other jurisdiction that does it like this!).

Yes, especially for the ultra rich such as Lewis Hamilton who bought his private jet through via the Isle of Man through a trust to avoid paying VAT.

Or the pop stars, actors, sports personalities who "emigrate" so as to become non resident and avoid UK tax, who therefore buy their rolexes, designer handbags, sports cars, yachts, etc in their overseas tax havens so don't pay UK VAT on them. If they were incentivised to stay resident in the UK, they'd buy stuff in the UK and pay VAT on their luxuries!

Ah I didn’t know that about the loan based on equity, learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing that.

As for people not being rewarded for having kids, I can understand your view point but I’d like to challenge it a little. Children are rather expensive to raise (the small financial dispensations offered to families certainly don’t cover this cost) and the having, and raising, of children as a contribution to society itself is being viewed in an increasingly negative light. At what point does the act of having children become so unattractive people simply stop?
To an extent this is already happening, more people are choosing not to have kids now than ever before and whilst the decision to not have children is entirely valid, it’s important to remember the bigger long term picture here and not fragment the situation to only view the impact upon us in the immediate future rather than the long term.

Society requires children.

We need a next generation and we need a large enough next generation to meet the needs of the generations above otherwise the entire system crumbles beneath us.

Have a look at what happened in Singapore, they made having children so unattractive people simply stopped and it resulted in the government having to fork out significant financial bribes to incentivise them to start again. I find that really interesting.

It’s also worth remembering that children are actively people in their own right. They are not the fault of, liability of, or pets owned by their parents. They have a right to be supported by the system just as everyone else is. I always find it completely mind boggling that people are happy to be paying pensions to people who have realistically had their whole lives to work, save and support themselves but are incensed at the idea of paying towards maintaining a child who is incapable of working or supporting themselves 🤷‍♀️ I find the differing views between children and old people a bit insane. The entire crux of the argument seems to be ‘well parents shouldn’t have them if they can’t afford them’ but that’s not the child’s fault is it? The child is a person Independent of the parent they are not responsible for their parents poor financial planning or bad choices. They are certainly not to blame for their own existence.

Successive UK governments are schizophrenic about tax returns. Every so after they announce "simplifications" so fewer people have to complete them (such as the £1k interest allowance, the £2k dividend allowance, etc), and then a few years later, they reduce the allowances dragging people back into tax returns and then reduce capital gains tax allowance dragging even more people into having to complete tax returns for the first time. The politicians and mandarins need to make their bloody minds up.

The French idea sounds very sensible, having a form of consistent reporting for income and benefits. Trouble is in the UK, the tax/benefits are far too complicated (thank you politicians and mandarins), and HMRC are incapable of running a bath, let alone a complicated tax system, so it'll never happen without fundamental root and branch reform.

I’d have thought that one of the problems of means testing healthcare would be that it might become like child care and working. People with health problems may find themselves in a situation where their healthcare was free if they didn’t work, but as soon as they took a job they’d have to pay for their care, so it wouldn’t be worth them working.

Yawn!

I agree. My dad has more than enough money to heat his house yet has been given over £1000 this winter in extra payments he didn't need.

caringcarer · Today 16:13

I agree all incomes from all sources including child maintenance should be included to determine the amount of benefit received. It always seems strange to me that child maintenance is not included. There should also be a failsafe system where child maintenance is not paid for any reason then UC covers it, but absent parents are chased for payment.

That's a bit contradictory, isn't it?

Currently, there is no way of ensuring all absent parents pay for their children. Although I agree with a PP that any in employment should have it taken at source, I'm not sure how you can ensure that the dodgers (eg who go cash in hand) pay up as they should. To be honest, unless society starts shaming the (mainly) men who dodge their responsibilities it can't change.

Also, there are probably too many single parents who are single because they left an abusive relationship, and including maintenance as income in UC calculations can give an abusive ex way too much ongoing control over the resident parent.

And speaking of abusive relationships, I have never agreed with Child Benefit having an income threshold.

As I understood it, it was originally called Family Allowance and was a redistribution of tax to go directly to the mother as too many were kept short by their earning husband. You can't guarantee all victims of financial abuse have spouses earning under the threshold, and presumably those abusers earning over it are not going to agree to completing a tax return so their spouse has independent access to money for the children.

I did that same calculation and got divorced tbh. I work as well so not just claiming benefits but I’m much better off now really as I have control of my own finances. I do pay more in tax and NI than I get in UC so I’m not feeling too bad about it.

I think we should means test more. Certainly we should all have to pay a means tested fee when accessing healthcare. Even a nomimal means tested fee for schooling. Anything that means we can sort out the funding of our public services and stop all this bloody striking. Although being public services they would probably give all the money to higher ups rather than getting it to front line staff.

@taxguru everyone has to complete a tax return here. It's not popular but it's reasonably straightforward and there's a lot of help available.

When I look at twenty percent of the tax I pay is spent on welfare I think it should be more, you odious twat.

The government's energy support over the last winter was universal.

Bus passes and winter fuel payments are universal for all over a certain age, whether they are rich or poor.

Free healthcare is universal.

Free education is universal.

The big issue with means-testing is that often it is more expensive to administer than it actually saves.

Isn't the state pension partially based on your contributions, to a degree?

Not to a degree, totally. It’s a minimum of 35 years NI for a full state pension. In practise most people pay a lot more - I had 46 years.