Why do people torment themselves over school places

[Schoolplacechoicemyth]

Im in a local toddler/child social media group.

Every single year there are people on the group who apply wildly optimistically for 2 or 3 oversubscribed schools several miles away from their home, are given the unpopular school they live near and desperately ask how to appeal because they "really love oversubcribed school and absolutely want DC to go there".

They seem completely unprepared for how unlikely it was they'd get a place, baffled that their preference doesn't actually get them the place at the oversubscribed chool, spend weeks/months appealing for schools they have next to no chance of a space at, & complain repeatedly on the group about it. Often the school they live near is fine, its just not the fashionable choice this week.

The local council publish all the info. You can see, easily, how close you need to live to stand a decent chance at a place. All the admission criteria are available.

Why do people do this to themselves!? Do they really think their preference is a factor when applying to a routinely oversubscribed school living miles away? Its like there's some sense of entitlement to a place at the trendy/popular school. I just couldn't torture myself like this. One lady has spent weeks telling her DC they are going to popular school X with their nursery friends. She lives over 5 miles from it & it hasn't taken a non sibling from more than a mile away in over a decade and yet she's bewildered her DC didn't get a space.

This row- which was just the other day, wasn’t about practical arrangements though. It was about one mum wanting her kid to go to a “rough” school , but not being able to afford property in a more middle class catchment . Queue massive row between lots of Scottish members about whether it was fair to play the system to get your child into a nicer school, and/ or whether it was fair that some children had to go to “rougher” schools just because their parents couldn’t afford more expensive property. Sounded very familiar to me!

I also can't believe that people don't "game" the system, there must be shit schools and good schools in Scotland, there's no way they're all equal. Even if they aren't Ofsted rated, people know by word of mouth etc.
So, there most likely is things like more expensive housing near better schools etc.

I don’t get it at all. Surely the closest to home is best, I’d never want to drive kids to school. Your child’s outcome in life is determined by far more than school.

Schools vary hugely and a different school can create very different outcomes for a child. I've been a teacher for over twenty years. I've taught in schools I'd have loved to send my own dv to and schools where I would have done everything in my power not to send them. Closest to home is closest, not best.

I have worked in a school where every room suitable for a classroom - plus 2 that really aren’t - is in use.

Where every KS2 class has 32 or more children in it, and every class is full to physical capacity and beyond.

Where there are multiple appeals each month from parents moving into the area.

The Scottish process really wouldn’t work - the school would basically gave to build and build and employ more and more staff. Meanwhile a school in an adjacent area - to whom many of the children in popular school’s ‘catchment’ end up going - would be underfilled and shrinking.

Low population density and significant oversupply of both classrooms and teachers are key to the Scottish approach working.

@00100001

Do you think we're lying?

🤣

Why do people torment themselves over school places ?

…….. because education is so vitally important to a child’s future prospects and the school they live near isn’t fine, far from it.

There’s a reason why these school are so over subscribed. And there’s a reason why the local bog standard comprehensive isn’t. And it’s nothing to do with fashion.

No.

I just don't believe that people aren't playing the game.

Yup. Closest school to my niece has fucking shocking pastoral care.

It seems hard to believe but we don't have dearer housing near "good" schools. Maybe in cities but not elsewhere.
We had to make the GP room into an extra classroom when there was a bulge in particular year but that's gone now.
A PP described it as "angst" over school places which is a great description. It just doesn't happen here and we find it hard to understand.

Whilst I'm sure there are a handful kf schools that are genuinely terrible, they are not everywhere and in my county there really aren't any awful schools. When people get in such a state about which they want their kids to go to near me, it's usually based on snobbery, historical reputations or anecdotal incidents that happened to a friend of a friend.

I find the perpetuation of the idea that hundreds of families and scores of professionals are involved in schools that any "decent person" would run screaming from offensive. The vast majority of schools will have a mix of people and personalities and like most things in life will offer opportunities to get the most out of it if you're prepared to take them.

So... There are house price differences near 'good' schools then...

What's a GP room?

the short answer is because we all care about our children, their happiness and their education and want the best for them

Does that help?

I remember when I had to first apply for a primary school, and the nearest one was a 15 min walk away. The second nearest was a 20.

I applied for the nearest, and was told by people who had applied the year before, that I wouldn’t get in cos they didn’t. They claimed they lived closer too.

They weren’t happy when I said we got in.

I am incredibly lackadaisical about schools. I think it has to do with my own experience of having changed schools about 6 times as a child, including attending state and private schools. Overall they were all about the same academically but where I fit in best was the last school I attended before uni. I have always been more concerned that DD is happy and enjoys learning rather than the trends or academics. I think there can be brilliant teachers at not so great schools and terrible teachers at ‘good’ ones. Most UK schools (and yes I know there are exceptions) are fine and I think parents worry too much.

Your responses are so funny. Do you think we’re making it all up? Every council authority in Scotland splits their area up into catchments. Your postcode therefore determined your catchment and school. Catchment boundary lines very rarely change, and only after long and arduous consultations.

Primary school and highschool catchments are broadly similar but can be slightly different. Primary schools are not rated so there’s not such a big deal about where your child goes. Highschools are somewhat more competitive, particularly in bigger cities, so naturally the cost of housing is higher in ‘good’ catchment areas.

You can visit your local council website so view their anticipated population trends over the next five-ten years (based on birth rates) so they can broadly determine capacity requirements. Most schools will have extra space if one year an extra class (or split class) is needed.

why do you think we’re lying? Lol

Where I live (where if you’re in catchment then you’re in the school) there are also schools that you can ‘choose.’ They have different philosophies (may emphasize STEM / the arts / small class size etc.) They are generally lottery based, if you’re within the overall district (vs a specific catchment.)

@00100001 I said "Maybe in cities"
I don't know. I don't live in or near one nor do I know anyne who does.
GP - General Purpose used for drama, music lessons etc

Seriously, you've had this explained to you that stable catchments is how it works in lots of places. Because the catchments are stable you have larger years and smaller years, which makes it easier to smooth.

But yes, this approach obviously also works better in systems that aren't chronically underfunded, where the authorities responsible for providing education have the ability to open new schools where they're needed, where every square inch that could be classroom space is used for classrooms, where admissions aren't distorted by faith places, etc etc.

The batshittery of the English admissions system is so deeply entwined with its other major issues that it's hard to see how to unpick it without absolutely huge levels of reform.

@00100001

Well there are shit areas and rough areas and in between.

There's no grammars. No single sex. No middle schools (don't even know what they are)

There are Catholic and non dom

Private (thats really playing the game.

I dont think anyone said no one played the game anyway.

It just doesn't seem to be such a big thing.

Well off people will live in better areas because area is better.

But even that isn't a guarantee of a better school/no rough kids

What fools they are to worry about their child’s education. They should accept their fate with good grace and stop embarrassing themselves by caring too much about the dire schools in their catchment area. If they had a better grasp of the odds, or the money to buy a more expensive house, they wouldn’t leave themselves open to mockery.

Elsewhere people just shuffle off to the closest school, which means they’re all much of a muchnesss.

It isn't like this everywhere though- we are v lucky with the schools around us - majority are rated good or outstanding so there wasn't any stress really.

@NoTouch our catchment school is a 5 class intake. That's 150 kids. That's way too much for a reception group. There's no way they can offer the unique support that young children need with an intake so big.

I don't think anyone suggested that there weren't people buying into 'better' catchments or whatever. Like I said, my SIL is annoyed that their secondary catchment changed!

But at least the game is a lot less opaque. And without the uncertainty my experience is that you don't get the absolutely mental house prices very close to the 'good' schools as there is a much wider area to choose from to be sure of getting into a certain school because the anomalies/odd years etc are removed.

Fraud checks are in place and I can guarantee you that no one is buying up homes to get into primary school catchment areas - the idea is laughable. You’ll have people buying homes in cities (Edinburgh and Glasgow) to get into a good school, but the cost of housing there is not as expensive as it is simply because of schooling.