To think this kind of behaviour in the classroom is not acceptable?

[stabledoor]

My DD is in Y7 at the local comprehensive. I have a DS in Y10 at the same school. It's a big and very diverse school, but I'm a strong supporter of comprehensive education, and have been firmly of the belief that a bright child will do well wherever they are. My DS is motivated, has been lucky enough to make friends with a group of like-minded and bright boys, and appears to be doing well - academically and socially.

However, from my DD I'm hearing a lot more than I ever have from my DS about some of the behaviour in the school, and I'm just astounded at some of the things that I'm hearing. I don't know if this is normal for urban secondary schools, and very keen to get some perspective on this from others. I'm worried about the effect this is having on her and her learning (she's a very different character to my DS).

For example, my DD says that in class, during lessons, the other girls will do things like sit there and curl their eyelashes or get out body spray and spray themselves and the teachers do nothing. Children turn up late to lessons, sometimes with ridiculous excuses, and teachers appear to do nothing about it. All of Y7 have to have computers this year and she says often in lessons, if they're meant to be doing something on their laptop the other kids will just be playing games or watching stuff - the teachers seem to be aware of this and do nothing about it. They have a lot of supply teachers and she tells me that some teachers say to the class that they don't have to do the work that's been set, just go on their laptops and as long as they keep quiet that's fine. In Art and Drama, 2 subjects which my DD loves, the teachers apparently spend so much time trying to control the class - one boy in particular - that they hardly get to actually do or learn anything - to the extent that DD said the other day that she's beginning to hate art lessons.

So AIBU to be shocked by some of these things. Are they just what happens in schools these days? Will things be any better if I move my DD to another school (if I can even do that - we'd have to wait for a place to come up as other local schools are all over-subscribed)? Should I be complaining to the school about these things that I'm hearing? (I have already written to them about a couple of teachers/lessons that I haven't been happy about).

Of course it's not acceptable but it is how it is,
This is largely why there is a crisis in teacher retention (as well as ridiculous workload)
Parents would be shocked if they spent any time in a high school. A colleague of mine had his arm broken by a student and ended up retiring early. Why should that be tolerated?

This is why I dont believe in comprehensive education.

School should be for learning.

For DC with difficulties there needs to be a more social program to get them to the point of being able to engage in education without that disturbing the majority.

Completely agree with you.
Schools seem to be awful these days [At least at secondary level]..Very disturbed children that disrupt classes..It seems to be far worse in the past few years.

If things get to a point where your dd's future is being compromised, look into private online education. It's more affordable than conventional private schooling. We had to do this with ds2 when things got too bad in his school. Some of the kids were downright feral and bullying was rife.

He left online secondary school with eight good International GCSEs and is doing very well at college now.

I was at a comprehensive school in the 70s. We ran riot and sat and did our make up and bunked off. We all now have degrees and successful lives. I know the behaviour sounds bad but it really isn’t an indicator of what can be achieved

Sounds fairly normal from my experience of teaching secondary for 26 years.

A teacher can only do so much. How does your dc know the teachers knows the kids are on computer games? Its what kids do.

My ds no 29 with 2 MA’s and a brilliant job is very proud of the fact that he managed to complete an entire game in 2 years of school IT. It’s one of his biggest achievements apparently.🤷🏼‍♀️They’re kids.

Yep this is standard in our local secondaries and is the reason why we have chosen private for DD.

It's certainly not the norm in my child's school. Being late, abusive language, running etc gets you a detention and isolation. Disruption to the class gets them sent out of the lesson so others can work. Many people say this is to strict but it actually works. It's certainly not all state schools and private schools and s certainly not the only option.

Yep, that was my experience at school in the 90s/00s. I've teacher friends who all say similar, but with added assault and violence. It sounds bloody awful.

I'd be willing to bet that the girls doing their lashes and using body spray during lessons are NOT the ones with additional needs. Those girls are sitting there quietly masking and following the rules.

Please don't blame individual teachers who seem to 'do nothing', OP. The behaviour policy of the school is the issue, and the lack of resources to make anything better. I left an 'outstanding' comp after a long and successful teaching career because I wasn't safe in the classroom and I couldn't keep the students safe either. Pregnant staff members were getting punched by kids who received no consequence; they were expected to keep teaching them the next day. That was pre-covid and it's only got worse since.

I worked in what was considered a middle-class faith school (big comprehensive)and I was shocked at what went on in some lessons (I wasn't a teacher at the time).

I've seen a lot of it over the years and I think students and parents have far too much power. Teachers and SLT are terrified of them, which I just don't understand. There are huge disincentives to excluding children and it means that the majority of children who come to school to try and learn have their opportunities spoiled by a feral minority, to whom sanctions mean nothing.

I've given it so much thought over the years (as a secondary teacher and in other capacities in schools). Class size is key, but also making sure that parents are really on board with expectations when their children join a school too. I remember, while visiting schools with one of my children in Y5/6 the Head's speech really laid it on the line. She said 'If you don't want to work, do your best, hand in homework on time, be polite and helpful etc etc etc, then this is not the school for you!'. She didn't bother with any of the 'soft soap' and mushy PR which the other Heads had all spouted and I really respected her for that.

We escaped this because we live in a grammar school area so the problems were minimal in terms of disrupted lessons - but not zero. But I know from working in big comprehensive schools just what challenges teachers and motivated students face. Schools are just too damn big these days, for one thing, but the problems are very complex.