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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not take my work laptop on holiday?

143 replies

Justathrowawaycomment · 16/04/2023 22:21

I have a relatively intense job - but - it's NOT a life saving type of job - it's in tech.

It is a US-based firm, and I report into a US-based leader. They don't really 'do' annual leave, as in, they take their PTO (Paid Time Off) but still dial into calls, and and...well, work, basically.

DH, DD and I go on a week's holiday (abroad) tomorrow morning.

My gut tells me to take my work laptop - so I have access to work/files if I need them.

My brain tells me that taking my work mobile (with access to email + Microsoft Teams) is enough.

When I ask myself "what could go wrong?" - it's nothing major, nothing that will cost us money, or be embarrassing for the company, but it might be inconvenient for my leadership team if they want access to something I can't provide from holiday.

I can't really pre-provide them with access to everything they 'might' need as there is a LOT of stuff, and some of it is quite sensitive, especially without context.

So AIBU to not take my (stupidly heavy) work laptop...? I think I just need reassurance that I'm not being unreasonable, more than anything.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 16/04/2023 23:40

However, I am the only person who does my job in the company and so there's no one I can handover or delegate to when I'm away. I take my phone and check my emails each morning before breakfast & again late afternoon.

That’s ridiculous that no one can cover your role. What if you were in a coma in intensive care or something. They’d have to manage somehow.

Jengnr · 16/04/2023 23:43

What does the O in PTO stand for?

You are off. Be off.

Original poster
Justathrowawaycomment · 16/04/2023 23:44

This feels fairly unanimous (94% say to leave my laptop at home).

Though there are a couple of people who, I suspect, work in similar companies to me.

My leadership team would absolutely say "take a break, we all need one" - but at the same time, they set the tone by attending 5am calls during their breaks.

I sent a note to my team (22 people) end last week, with a status update, confirmation of my absence dates, and how to get in touch with me (WhatsApp) if anything crops up.

My out of office is on, directing to my line manager, who is a very reasonable person (though she too is one to dial into 5am calls while on vacation).

I'll take my mobile, but not my laptop, that feels like a decent compromise.

I love my job, there's not much I'd rather do with my working-time, but I could also really do with not thinking about it for a week!

Thanks all!!

OP posts:
TheaBrandt · 17/04/2023 07:23

It’s a silly culture to never have a break and counter productive if you push staff too far they may leave or have a breakdown..

brunettemic · 17/04/2023 07:26

Don’t take either, I understand the argument about the US culture but it’s like saying you need to not go to bed in case they call during their working hours.

NotMyDayJob · 17/04/2023 07:29

My DH is c suite for a US tech firm. He leaves his laptop at home and I make him uninstall slack. If he knows there is something we might have an embargoed time but otherwise, Americans work him hard and trample all over his boundaries the rest of the time. He fully acknowledges he needs a break from them

BenCoopersSupportWren · 17/04/2023 07:37

I’m sure once your kids have flown the nest, you’d be thinking with pleasure to the fond memories of all those work emails you answered during your holiday time with them…

BarbaraofSeville · 17/04/2023 07:39

I know it's down to cultural differences, but if you're working when you're on leave in your sort of job, then you're not actually taking your leave are you?

Despite working for a US company, if you're based in the UK, I believe that you're entitled to UK statutory annual leave, so you should have a minimum of 28 days when you don't work (plus weekends obviously).

Plus it sounds like your managers are actually supportive of that, so it's not like it's restricting your career to take the breaks you are legally entitled to.

If I were you I'd definitely not work when on leave, with appropriate handovers and notice, and if that is seen as detrimental, look for another job.

Mortimercat · 17/04/2023 07:40

Nanny0gg · 16/04/2023 22:52

Is your contract a UK one even though a US company?

If so, leave it all at home

The OP is in the UK. Therefore her employment contract is bound by UK employment laws. The country her company is incorporated or head quartered in is completely irrelevant.

LittleRedYarny · 17/04/2023 07:49

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 16/04/2023 22:41

This is so alien to me. Where I work, we wouldn’t be allowed to take a work laptop out of the country even if we wanted to!

It’s also discouraged to work when you’re on AL, as everyone knows people need a break, and work better on their return if they’ve had one.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing is right, check your corporate policies. Do you need permission or is there a minimum standard for keeping corporate devices safe and secure?

Also what’s your holiday insurance say, would you be covered for loss even if it was taken from a hotel room safe?

Also, depending on where you’re going, check
the local cryptographic laws. France used to have some crazy rules up to the early 2000s (I think some still stand and can be subject to high level fines.) I have found in the past that this can be a handy get out of jail free card for not taking anything work related with you.

Have a lovely holiday!

KitKatLove · 17/04/2023 07:53

Don’t take either your phone or laptop.

So worst case scenario, something happens then it no longer is a case of just checking an email or taking a call. You’re sucked into work instead of enjoying your holiday with your family. I can hear it now, I’ve just got this one call, I won’t be a minute. You will prioritise work over time with your family.

No one is indispensable if something happens your colleagues will have someone who can help, presumably you have a boss who knows what you do.

Commonhousewitch · 17/04/2023 08:03

I take my phone always and have started taking my laptop-its just easier sometimes to use a laptop rather than a phone - i also have a fear of being locked down soemwhere without a laptop - either Covid or another reason which has happened to a couple of people i know
The phone just gives me the comfort that I can be involved if something comes up - gives me a bit more flexibility about when I can go on holiday - to a degree Id be more tense if I didn't have access/couldn't confirm there was no "emergency"
I remember years ago first getting a work blackberry and the trade off was that you got flexibility they got availability

rookiemere · 17/04/2023 08:15

I wouldn't be checking your phone either OP, unless you've got the salary to justify it which in my book wouldn't be at least six figures.

I couldn't live like that. If I had to switch on to work even for half an hour a day, there would be absolutely no point being on holiday. And that's the best case scenario.All fine and dandy if nothing goes wrong, but presumably the expectation is that if it does, you would spend additional unpaid hours fixing it.

Mind you some people in our UK owned company are like that. Only take annual leave because they have to, and log in while off to check everything is okay. Fine if that's what they want to do, not so fine if it becomes an expectation for others.

Original poster
Justathrowawaycomment · 17/04/2023 08:22

I do have the salary to justify it, I guess.

But I also put a lot of time into work, often working through London time, and pretty much all of NY time (ET) Often later than the end of the ET day to make sure I get coverage over California-time (PT). Really only stopping for dinner and bedtime with DD. Sometimes I also start early to speak with APAC. But those are all choices I make, and I can't really complain about my time, when I'm the only person who can protect it.

I also know I can take my laptop with me, I travel with it regularly, and it's secured (eg it wipes my hard drive and sends an SOS to IT if I get my Password wrong more than x-times).

But I do resent feeling beholden to work. For sure.

OP posts:
KitKatLove · 17/04/2023 08:24

Commonhousewitch · 17/04/2023 08:03

I take my phone always and have started taking my laptop-its just easier sometimes to use a laptop rather than a phone - i also have a fear of being locked down soemwhere without a laptop - either Covid or another reason which has happened to a couple of people i know
The phone just gives me the comfort that I can be involved if something comes up - gives me a bit more flexibility about when I can go on holiday - to a degree Id be more tense if I didn't have access/couldn't confirm there was no "emergency"
I remember years ago first getting a work blackberry and the trade off was that you got flexibility they got availability

And has anything ever arisen that honestly either couldn’t wait or that you were the sole person who could deal with it? Genuinely interested as if I’m on leave but not away I look but when I’m abroad I don’t take anything. And they always manage to find out what to do or it can wait. Returning to the hundreds of emails my heart sinks for a moment.

JeannieAlogy · 17/04/2023 08:26

You're on holiday so no, don't take work stuff. The US culture of never switching off is incredibly harmful.

rookiemere · 17/04/2023 08:27

It's a US company thing then.

Is it possible to get a role with a UK company instead? Would avoid the insane working hours for US clocks and there is more of an expectation that at least family holidays are mostly sacrosanct.

What happens if you do push back and tell everyone that you will be focusing on your family and not routinely logging in ?

Missingthegore · 17/04/2023 08:51

Don't take it
My organisation has intentionally set barriers on accessing emails from overseas for a data security point of view and added bonus you need the COO approval for access.

The COO takes leave and delegates, therefore is very selective about approval for others to have overseas access.
The director of surgery takes leave and delegates (however too many surgeons have his personal mobile and ring to moan about rubbish)

I go with the attitude of what if you were run over by a bus? How would the team cope? What if you won the lottery and gave the company a 2 finger salute?

They can cope without you for a few weeks. Enjoy the holiday. Hand the phone over to a colleague.

Warn people you will be on leave so they can ask the questions before you go and the rest can wait until you get back.

tanstaafl · 17/04/2023 08:58

Understand you set a expectation whatever your choice.
If you take the laptop and phone this time, you’re doomed to take them every time.

Even if you just take the phone, surely when you’re ‘just checking’ , it will show you’ve been online in Teams or what have you.

Again expectations will be set for future holidays as everyone else will see you’ve been online 2 hours ago.

Have you asked DH how he feels about you taking laptop/phone?

Its tricky I know, having worked on projects run out of the USA.
There does seem to be an expectation you’re available whenever whatever.

ByTheSea · 17/04/2023 08:59

I have slowed down a bit now due to age and illness, but I have worked intense jobs in Fintech, including for American companies as I do now, for decades (and am American but have lived in the UK for 25+ years). My boss has my personal mobile number and can text me in an extreme case for guidance, but I wouldn't dream of bringing my work phone, work email or work laptop on annual leave. It's a very unhealthy culture that promotes that type of behaviour.

MrBit · 17/04/2023 09:05

Go without it and enjoy your holiday without any guilt

caringcarer · 17/04/2023 09:09

Leave the laptop at home and take a proper break.

Ginmonkeyagain · 17/04/2023 09:24

Look at it this way - if it suited them they would sack you with out a second thought or backward glance. You owe these people nothing more than the hours they pay you for.

This type of company culture can go fuck its self sky high. It does not increase productivity and it actively harmful for staff and the company. If you are senior and you do this you are colalborating in perpetuating a harmful company culture.

At a former workplace we had a sneio member of staff who was recruited from an Amercian owned firm. They had a habit of sending emails at all hours to staff includign during holiday periods. In the end HR took them aside and had strong works about how harmful this was to younger staff and gave some rather pass agg tips on managing their workload more effectively. They were utterly astonished.

GCMM · 17/04/2023 10:20

My partner got a telephone call from work (on his personal phone) when we were on holiday abroad celebrating my 50th birthday. The call was to tell him that an Ofsted inspection had been announced for the day he was due to return to work. Much of the rest of the holiday was spent with him on the phone, arranging this, that and the other. He did his best, but I could tell his head space was definitely preoccupied with what was happening back home. And yes, I resented it!

TheaBrandt · 17/04/2023 10:47

I don’t think any salary justifies having no break. Honestly I work with the terminally ill time is precious especially with young kids on holiday with you. Fuck that! Bet the president of the United States gets a break. No one is indispensable. They would bin you without a second thought if it suited them.