To think smart motorways were never a good idea?

[bluebottle23]

I've just been watching a news segment about smart motorways and can't fathom how they ever got approved. Literally an accident waiting to happen and sadly many did. I hate driving on a smart motorway, especially with my daughter and just seeing aerial footage of one there is literally nowhere safe for you to get out stand and wait. I'd rather be stuck in slow moving traffic than risk my family's life on one of these motorways.

Forever I notice that as well. I think it is because they are so often inaccurate

Cars, yes Ckelp. Electric scooters not so much, and more manoeuvrable.

The dislike for electric cars, which will undoubtedly save more lives than their quiet running takes, is mad.

And the scooter operating in the same place as a bike is more manoeuvrable and no faster.

If we got people out of cars and onto bikes and scooters we'd all be better off, but we do need to be more aware of safety, as drivers and pedestrians, when crossing and in car parks.

My only dislike for electric cars is the cost. If they be the same price as petrol cars I will buy one.

Always obvious to everyone. But no doubt "experts" from the University of East Anglia (or god knows where) did a "study" and "the data said" etc etc blah de blah. That's how so many things feel these days.

I agree OP!

My dad worked on motorway systems when they were being installed. Basically the original designs had laybys very regularly, I can't remember the distance but something like every 100m and some other features which would have made them safer. To save money they didn't install all the laybys etc and we ended up with hugely dangerous smart motorways.

I don't feel that the design is the problem, more the way people drive and it sounds as though the tech wasn't up to it

The vast majority of people are stupid. Nothing is ever going to change that: not technology, not "education", not anything. Designing a system that requires people to behave intelligently it is 100% guaranteed to fail.

This!
It is about prioritising personal safety. I for one will continue treating 'that' lane as a hard shoulder.

Awful idea they were.

Smart motorways are dangerous in so many ways. I drive weekly on the M25 and the amount of times people have to slam on their brakes because the gantry cameras drop from NSL to 40. Or they'll yoyo between the gantries, so 60 then down to 40, up to 50, back to 40, up to 60....

I loathe them, but what can you do.

The M42 is a minute or two from my home and it appears to be a “hybrid” smart motorway (no idea if this is normal for a smart motorway!)

It has a former hard shoulder as a lane however there is always a cross above in the gantry meaning it can’t be used (which appears to be the case 99% of the time I use it) however in some circumstances, it can be used to help ease congestion. In my experience of using it, I think it works quite well.

The problem is that they aren't 'smart' in the slightest! I thought they'd be sensors under the road detecting traffic stopping etc but no, it relies on people calling in to say there's a problem.

Absolute madness and very glad no more will be built.

I can remember when I saw 30mph from NSL! Craziness.

There were supposed to be monitored cameras. But it cost too much so does not happen.
It's scary driving in the dark at seventy miles an hour and suddenly realising there is a stopped car with people inside in the lane up ahead. I moved over in plenty of time, but it made me realise how easy it is for crashes to happen. There was no one in front of me so it took a bit to realise the car was not moving at all.

I lived in the West Midlands when part of the M42 became a smart motorway and to be honest it was fine and helped with traffic congestion.

However, the safety measures were much closer than they are nowadays on newer smart motorways but the main difference was that the extra lane was only ‘live’ when the motorway was busy and you could only use the lane if you were getting off at the next junction. You did not drive on it past an exit.

i don’t feel safe though on the M6 in Cheshire though where the smart system runs for miles and the safety refuges are not as frequent. I try to avoid the M6 which is difficult now the smart motorway has been extended.

To be fair, my experience is based mainly on the M42 (and maybe M1?) which people are saying is a good one.

AA now calling for existing ones to be reverted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65294356

I think they work well when the traffic is heavy enough to be moving at 30/40mph, it uses the space efficiently and doesn’t really cause a safety issue, the traffic just comes to a halt naturally. The problem occurs when the traffic’s light enough to be doing 60mph+ and you can come across a stranded vehicle unexpectedly.

The design needs to allow for how people drive. If people disobey the lane closed signs, then there needs to be a hard shoulder.

Also I don't see smart motorways as progress. Progress would be public transport and active transport investment - getting to the point that people need cars less. Building more/wider roads just leads to more traffic - that has been shown time and again.

Yes, I wonder why they don't just set the hard shoulder closed unless the variable speed is set to 40 mph or less. If traffic is light enough for higher speeds surely that extra space isn't really needed? If traffic is slower then it's less of an issue to not have a hard shoulder.

I think the idea of variable speed limits is really good and does improve safety. The issue is just the lack of hard shoulder (as well as the lack of refuges!)

On a speed awareness course I was told that you don't get done for speeding at the first camera after a change in speed limit, so there is no need to slam on - you can just take your foot off a bit. Obviously most people don't know that though...

Yanbu. I hate them and go out of my way to avoid them. I hope they will reinstate the hard shoulders next.

It was a cheap option that cost more in the long run. Like pretty much everything done by this current government.

Oh well that's ok then - as long as it's driver error that killed someone who broke down on a smart motorway it's ok?? What are you saying there?

I want a system that protects me as much as possible even if all the other drivers are complete idiots. Not one that relies on perfect obedience from everyone. If that means a hard shoulder is required then that's just the way it is. We already know that the majority of drivers speed, use phones behind the wheel, drive when overtired, don't check their tyre pressures, drive drunk or on drugs or with screaming babies that distract them, and haven't looked at the highway code since they passed their test 20 odd years ago (and even then only gave it a cursory glance).... it would be amazing if they were all paying full attention to, and abiding by, the overhead gantries.

Ditto, a van broken down in the left lane. No warning. I didn't see it until the last few seconds and the lane on my right had a car transporter, so I had no where to go. Thought I'd had it, but the transporter must have seen it before me and pulled over enough for me not to hit it. Normally I'm looking ahead, but I was distracted wondering what the men were doing in the bushes behind the barrier!