To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

I’m not saying everywhere in Europe has the same issues as us all I was saying is to make out we are somehow the back of the beyond and worse than any of them is incorrect in my view - everywhere in Europe is struggling with different problems which affect quality of life/lifestyle etc at the moment.
my friend in Italy is always complaining about how it’s turning into a shithole over there, same my friend who lives in Germany now. Different issues sure but the rest of Europe isn’t some kind of utopia by comparison and that’s actually far more worrying to me.

I've just come back from Paris, dog shit everywhere! And I've previously noticed the same in Spain and the Canaries

@TheColourofspring Oh god it’s awful, awful! We live in a different country now. Moved during Covid so I guess I haven’t been out and about here much since 2019/early 20. Back for spring break.

IT IS GRIM! We’re staying in my home city (North of England) used to be buzzy and vibrant well maintained. Lots of it looks very, very dirty, and downtrodden, poor maintenance of paths, pavements, street scaping etc. Lots of boarded up areas. Streets that used to be lovely feel pretty rough And the people aren’t much better, I’ve actually felt unsafe at so many points I’m sorry to say.

All this about the high rates of diabetes because of the fast food places in the news here this week too.

I broached this with a friend who works for a luxury garage here and they were saying the same. Interestingly they were also saying I wouldn’t believe how many ‘bent’ (as they called them) people they have to deal with, sp criminals basically. Said they’ve never known anything like it. I thought that was really telling, crime seems to have been allowed of thrive on a huge scale.

@BeautifulWar see my post above my home city is definitely not nice any more. A sad and steep decline.

Paris has always been full of dog shit but still usually sluiced overnight (in the grander places at least) I think?

I am interested in the criminality comment above - that is what really worries me. How hard it is for the children I work with to avoid the lure of crime and how the criminal economy seems to have gone mainstream and almost consequence free. Have worked with the same communities for years and the difference is immense. The antisocial behaviour, perhaps because of their social exclusion for one reason or another, of adults and parents is a problem I have never seen the like of previously.

As family, we talked around these issues tonight at dinner. Us and our one DC. And because we hope to retire from the business we created ab initio 30 something years ago, which has become successful over time, and which provides an important skilled service element to our local economy, and employs eight people on good wages, we have link ups in mind that would make stronger businesses. But the lack of trust and goodwill is such a barrier to creating a better enterprise. Sometimes I cry, but the better quick fix financial option for us is to close the company, sell the assets and leave. Meanwhile, my DH whose life work has been building the business is ageing in front of me: I need to get him out, to enjoy a retirement.

We have become such a low trust society, and I think especially in the north, that it is really difficult to agree transactions. We have a commercial transaction on the table right now, and the combination of our two companies would create a bigger stronger company that has a shot at being a European leader in its field. It is heart breaking to recognise that if it doesn't happen, everyone will not profit. (It's a management buyout, not an asset rape, for the record).

Yes, but average poster in feminist section on here seems much more worried about mansplaining, manspreading, and pronouns in email signatures.

I don’t think that’s right. I recall some threads on the impact of males moving to societies. In fact mnhq deleted one or two and there was push back from that. It’s not always allowed.

I've only seen one, which was quite recently. It got deleted which was annoying as I hadn't read all the links.

The OP referenced Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Muslim woman who suffered FGM and escaped forced marriage, who talks about how in many Muslim countries the woman is still the one responsible for allowing herself to be in the position where she can be raped etc - basically victim blaming.

First reply called her 'a right wing sycophant'. I've not read much of her stuff but in the linked article she mentioned no less than three times that one of the dangers of ignoring these issues is that people get driven towards the far right, who aren't scared to speak up - bit like what's going on with some GC feminists and the Conservative Christians against trans people.

Ali specifically said in the article that a lot of feminists and woke people are afraid to address the issues out of political correctness so maybe that's why some don't like her, but she seemed to make a lot of sense to me in the small amount I read.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/2541548-Mass-sexual-assaults-in-Cologne-on-New-Years-Eve?flipped=1&page=23

Yes, I know there were threads but I think my point still stands. There are also loads of threads (understatement of the year!) on the trans debate and that doesn't mean it's not an issue with the government and many regulatory bodies being scared to say the truth (that men can't change sex).

The UK police actually admitted that they didn't interfere in Rotherham due to the racial element, and the German police also tried to suppress the NYE issues and the assaults at subsequent festivals by stating after each event that they'd been largely trouble free - only back pedalling after public pressure.

I used to be proud of being a brit.

On holiday in the Netherlands recently I found myself wishing I lived there, or any other civilised EU country.

I've never felt that before

Wtf happened to us?

And feminists seem largely quiet about it too. You'd have thought there'd be loads of discussion in that part of mumsnet.

I guarantee it would be a different case if the perpetrators had been described as 'men dressed as women' rather than 'men of north African/foreign appearance'.

If 1200 women were sexually assaulted in one night by a big group of transwoman it'd be all over here.

That's a really interesting article. It's true you can't see the decline so clearly until you compare with your own eyes.

It's a very interesting article because it is true. Britain is a much poorer country than it was 15 years ago, it's got some more very rich people, but it has not prospered.

Skimming through that article and reading the bit about young people, one thing that strikes me is that most young Eastern Europeans I've met are far more ambitious that many English youth.

I remember reading an article (in Vice I think) which talked about either millennials or Gen Z - I forget which. It mentioned how many don't chase wealth like their parents did, don't chase marriage, and are often happy with a 'job' rather than a career.

Whether that's true or not, one thing I've definitely noticed is that there are a much higher proportion of Poles/Romanians etc in trade/construction jobs. With trade jobs paying better on average than both graduate jobs and office jobs, it's not surprising if EE are often out earning our own youths.

I know that truck drivers, for example, are respected on the continent and actually have decent facilities compared to over here. There is much more snobbery in the UK which isn't good for driving these sectors, especially as much of the money won't go back into our economy if it's earned by European workers.

I linked to her Unherd article upthread.

There is a huge issue on the Feminism board which is that any mention of the ethnicity of, say the Rotherham grooming gangs, can elicit a response of 'racist' from the very Left wing posters on there.

Many of them can also not tolerate any criticism of the Labour Party and will vote for it whatever batshit women hating policies the LP comes up with. In their eyes, if you don't vote Labour you are a facist right wing Tory loving bigot. It's really pathetic and hinders intelligent debate.

This is also not true though,it's an interesting and thought provoking board much of the time.

People weren’t largely quiet about the issues in Sweden and Cologne, loads of threads were deleted at the time because posters weren’t allowed to refer to the cultural/religious background the offenders had in common. That’s why you don’t see much discussion on it whereas more of the trans issues threads are allowed to stand.

Spot on . People in general have become home centred and self centred . People don't look out for each other like they did and it started when Thatcher came to power.

Embeline they were deleted because they usually descended into racism.

I shall have to read that article. I've said before that I think part of the problem is the rigid thinking of some of the left, which makes it hard for some people to see that it's possible to be an oppressor whilst simultaneously being part of an oppressed demographic.

This is probably a controversial view to many but I sometimes think that in material terms Islam is a far bigger threat to women's wellbeing than the trans issue. Just maybe not so much to the wellbeing of the type of women that are most involved in the trans debate.

Not true. There was clear racism about "those people".

We could be as a country doing a lot better

that’s the issue life could be a lot better for many people regardless of how others are doing or not doing the wealth is here in this country

and the NHS has to go but no political party is willing to address this we could look to France and Germany (we would have to pay more) and learn from their healthcare - it’s not perfect but it’s better