To ask in what ways you’ve found that covid has left it’s mark on gen z?

[Grampalikedgrain]

Anecdotally I’m a teacher at a school age 11-18. Compared to before I would undoubtedly say that kids have less resilience, maturity and ability to work to deadlines. There’s so many older years not meeting basic expectations as they were in lockdown when they should have been taught some of these things. Eg a lot of our a levels cohort don’t know how to revise for exams. I see a LOT more immature and petty squabbles between our year 7s compared with pre covid cohorts. From friends working in other fields, I hear graduates are a lot harder to work with due to missing out on a normal uni experience. Aibu to ask in what ways you’ve found covid has left it’s mark on gen Z?

Meant to turn voting off -ignore 🙄

My son is 21 now, so at the beginning of 2020 he was just 18. He lost his job pretty much straight away and couldn’t get another one until very recently as his mental health plummeted. Both of his grandparents died in 2021 as we were coming out of the second lockdown and this floored him as he was very close to them. Then his close friend killed himself, aged 18. Everyone in his social circle has been massively impacted by this.
I strongly feel that we are underestimating the harm that covid did to this generation and to say that they lack emotional resilience is really playing down what they went through. My lad now has a job in hospitality and I am so proud he’s got this far now, that he can go out and work and mix with people when he spent 2 years, stuck in his bedroom with people dying that he loved at such a formative time. It has been horrible for this generation.

Lecturer here and I recognise everything you describe in terms of immaturity and lack of resilience.
Some of our students also come across as rather entitled but I wonder if it's linked to tuition fees rather than COVID.

Any class before 11 is too early. Anything past 3pm interferes with their social life too...

Yes. I think it has had a big affect on my daughter aged 17 and her friends. Their mental health is worse, they are less resilient, more reliant on parents. I think they can also come across as more entitled because they know they have missed out on a chunk of their teenagers years and are not happy about it

I also teach at an 11-18 school, and I definitely think older years have been impacted. Our Y12s coming through, for example, have big gaps in their knowledge- because of the way grade boundaries work, you can come out of exams with a high grade, but large gaps in your knowledge. This will lead to them going to uni less well prepared, and I do worry that some of them will struggle at this stage.

There are also lots of MH issues. I think it doesn't help that CAMHS are so stretched that they will basically only see young people in "crisis". Without early support, a lot more young people then go on to reach that crisis point. It feels like, at times, there are actually less services for under 18s now- you can also see this in the waits for ASD/ADHD diagnosis- which can last years and leave them in limbo. And yet when young people hit 18, we sometimes see them getting a diagnosis within 3 months!

Obviously we support as much as we can, but there's a limit to what can be done in schools.

I do think we're underestimating the impact it's had on children/teens. Even if you are 18- the pandemic lasted well over 10% of their life- and it isn't completely over, especially if you or a relative is vulnerable. But there is an expectation on schools and young people to be back to normal now, which I don't think is helpful.

Dd1 (ASD) enjoyed lockdown so much she couldn't cope with the return to 'normality', stopped going to school (y13 so not compulsory) and failed her A levels. I think without covid she might just have made it through - but couldn't live independently so uni wasn't an option anyway. But she got a glimpse of the (for her) blissful online-only world where she didn't have to confront any of her anxieties and she will probably always resent losing that.

Dd2 was very badly affected by lockdown and developed an eating disorder. Recovered as soon as lockdown ended TG but still has some oddness around food and will temporarily go back to restricting as a 'comfort blanket' when stressed.

She and her friends in general have a 'do it now, think later' attitude to social activities and holidays which I think is a legacy of not being able to do anything for ages, or even make plans. Long term I suspect this mindset could lead to higher levels of debt in this cohort.

When I look at my dc and their friends (boys), I see kids who've learnt to study more independently, are more resourceful and resilient but they're all less social. They don't spend much time going out with each other and spend more time online.
No one ever visits anyone and they may meet at the cinema if there's a new marvel film.

My daughter is at primary school and there are high levels of anxiety in her year and below as well as ocd with hygiene. Looking at it logically these children were isolated and told it was dangerous to go to school with their friends, that they could catch a nasty disease. No-one helped them process that trauma, they were just expected to come back and crack on like nothing had happened. Many of those children would have felt school was their sanctuary from stuff going on at home.

i also work in early years. We have seen a sharp rise in children with speech and language delays, social delays and behaviour issues. Talking to parents of two year olds I’ve heard some very sad stories of parents feeling isolated and overwhelmed having a baby during the pandemic.

Covid has definitely contributed big time to my DS's poor mental health. Ds (20) is severely mentally unwell. He managed 1st year uni from his bedroom but had a massive breakdown and has been unable to work or study for 2 subsequent years.
DS (16) was an introvert pre lockdown and was very resilient during lockdown- but struggled going back to school. That, and the stress of living with his brother's condition, has led to severe anxiety. I would say he is very resilient because he fights the challenge of anxiety every single day.

I'm a gcse and a level maths tutor. I saw my students get higher grades than they expected which allowed them to get onto a level courses which they are now really struggling with.

I don't know what happened to the ones who went to uni but at least one of them was way really below the grades needed and I can't see how he'd manage.

Mentally and socially I've seen a lot of my friends children become more difficult, lots of anger issues and school refusers. My own dc has special needs and thrived mentally over the lockdown but fell even further behind in maturity and ability to socialise with other kids.

This is my experience too, but I'm not sure whether the online socialising was a trend anyway which was merely slightly excelerated.

I live abroad in a country where education continued online and exams still happened on site (with no other pupils/ students in school) no real slack was given. This has led to a bigger division with children/ teens who's parents couldn't/ didn't ensure that their children were up and sitting in front of a PC/ laptop/ tablet at the start of the school day failing the year and repeating (which is a phenomenon here but has always been something that happens to a few in each secondary class).

It was difficult at the time (we were both working more rather than less during the pandemic) but my jaw did drop when I read all the MN and social media posts from parents in the UK not prepared to keep their children and teens in a school routine and I do wonder whether that culture had a long term impact.

I think overall the fact that although the lockdown was stricter and longer here there was no limbo during which children and teens were allowed to just stop working reduced the impact - many children/ teens become self disciplined and focused and actually thrived but it meant the ones that did fall through the net fell further.

Yes I think it’s been a disaster for a lot of children.

I work with older teens and we are seeing many more of them struggling than previously - can’t cope with exams, deadlines, getting up in the morning, even coming into school every day is too stressful for some of them. Concentration skills are lacking too.
We try and accommodate as much as possible but in the end if they aren’t attending lessons or submitting work, they aren’t going to get a very good grade. I do worry for them, what they will end up doing.

Partly I think some got into poor sleep habits during lockdown and then found it difficult to get back into a normal routine. They turn up hours late and say ‘but at least I am here now!’

We also notice than many students were given higher teacher grades than they would probably have achieved if they had sat the exams, and are really struggling with A Levels when they would have been better off doing a vocational course. That in turn feeds into their poor mental health as they can’t keep up. Or they have a ‘head in sand’ attitude, maybe because they don’t have the experience of sitting real exams (we do run mock exams but it’s surprising how many are suddenly unwell on the day!!)

My own DC are ok, we were fortunate that we were both working from home so made sure they had a good sleeping / eating routine, we got involved in their school work, and dragged them out the house as much as we were allowed to.
But not all parents were able to do that and many children were left to their own devices and are now lacking in basic skills.

However I am aware that my DS is academically behind where he should be, as he found it quite difficult to learn online. We are looking at vocational options for him after school rather than A Levels. It’s a shame but we have to make the best of the situation and maybe it will be better in the long run.

Loads of mental health issues. I’m a uni lecturer and there’s been a noticeable jump in numbers of students on antidepressants, etc. Also a number of students with long covid, students who have had blood clots as well. Three in the last 12 months and never known that before.

Yes MrsMullerBecameABaby although the schools set up online lessons here, many students just didn’t log in, and the teachers reported that some who had logged in were quite clearly not actually paying attention (e.g. not answering questions, staying logged in long after the lesson had finished, etc).
It requires quite a lot of self-discipline to learn online all day, it doesn’t suit everyone. Those children who had parents who couldn’t / wouldn’t supervise them, did end up falling behind.

I teach in a university and, yes, completely agree regarding immaturity and lack of resilience. I feel like I'm now teaching 14 year olds (in terms of both social and academic development) and many of them refuse to do anything that will take them outside their comfort zone, which is a bit difficult if you're doing a degree.

I work in a university with master's level students. They've become very unreliable in the last couple of years. At the start of a lecture less than half will be there. By the end it might be 3/4. I wouldn't mind if they were still doing well but the number of students failing is going up and there are appeals left, right and centre from students who are surprised they don't get a degree just by paying the fees.

To be fair we felt the same in the 1990s. I remember being incensed at a 9am class, we always treated ourselves to a Woolworth's breakfast after it, to make up for the sheer indignity of having to leave our bedrooms before 8.30.

Teacher. One of my classes has 25 on roll (y11).

Three I’ve never met. One I haven’t seen since mid year 10. Another five have attendance hovering around the 50% mark.

This is just one class of however many across the whole school.

And I’m expected to get them to pass practical exams that are scheduled across ten hours, at the same pass rate as pre-covid.

The number of toilet passes and allowed-to-walk-about passes, withdrawal room passes and whatnot has exponentially increased too, and funnily enough there’s no extra budget, funding or mental health support to deal with it.

But here we are, being told we’re selfish for striking to pay the bloody gas bill.

Pretty much the same.

The 11 year olds are like 8 year olds in terms of "scolarisation". Just knowing how to behave in society. My worst class for this are all 14-15 but you'd think they were much much younger. They can't sit still, they have to go to the toilet 3 times an hour. They need a drink of water. They're tired. A couple will lie across their desks being tired by the final hour. And these are good kids. They're bright and parents are very supportive. It's not a behaviour issue. It's simply a no longer knowing how to "be" in the classroom context.

My daughter started university in September and lots of things she says about the uni experience sound very different from ex students of mine only 3-4 years ago. Lots more going home if they have no lectures instead of staying on campus to socialise, people not bothering to go to lectures because they're all recorded. If you read Wiwikau so many kids aren't going to lectures, failing initial modules and not sticking it out. Because they've been through 2 years of being told it's ok not to do something if you don't feel like it.

And yes, very much a huge increase in anxiety and eating disorders. My "record" class has 4 girls with diagnosed eating disorders, and 3 more (2 boys, 1 girl) with anxiety to the point they've got personalised programmes. It's deeply concerning. Our school has a drop in weekly with psychologists for anyone who wants to go.

And the thing is- this is not, I don't think because of COVID itself, or lockdown, or restrictions. I think it's a consequence of us, adults, othering children and young people during COVID, for many and varied reasons.

We didn't make them do lessons- we baked and did Joe Wickes.
We didn't make them do the worksheets.
We didn't make them go into school. We didn't make them stay at home.
We didn't want them wearing masks.
We didn't want them vaccinated.
We didn't want them missing out on parties.
We didn't want them not seeing people.

That's a lot of not making decisions or making decisions not to. That's othering and we've done it to a whole generation. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. I dread to think about the workplace. You only have to look at posts on here. But it was nice working from home! I don't want to go back. Why can't I do what I want instead of what my employer wants. Ad infinitum.

I teach English but some of our 12/13 year olds apparently did no maths for almost 2 years. They didn't like maths before COVID so during 2020 they just didn't do any. And now their parents are wondering why they're 2 years behind.

I think there are two different things at play here, one as a result of Covid and one not. I work with 18-21 year olds, and the general consensus with most of them is that there's no point in working themselves into the ground for a job that has few prospects, pays badly and ultimately will get rid of them at a moments notice. That's not the fault of Covid but the working world we live in - people my age applied themselves hard at work when at that age and didn't get very far either, now I kick myself for not realising how social structure keeps us back. This generation have figured it out a lot quicker than I did.

But Covid has had an impact on young people (older ones too but in different ways). The expectation that we all need to go back to 'normal' without even acknowledging how Covid has affected us pisses me off no end. The whole stiff upper lip thing that certain sections of this country has can get lost. People are struggling and as a nation we should be given time to comfort ourselves back into life.

I regularly see year 7s who have to be cajoled into entering the school building in the mornings. Some still sharing rooms with mum or siblings as they are too anxious to sleep alone.

Older ones I haven't noticed major differences at school but when I've encountered some with incredibly poor social skills when out and about when they serve me in coffee shops or leisure centres etc. I've done those sorts of jobs not even all that long ago myself, so I do know it isn't a picnic, but really, how some of them hold down customer facing jobs is beyond me. I do think COVID is to blame for that.

I think perhaps we need to adjust our expectations.

No previous cohort has been through what our young people have been through.

Whilst a comparison with the pre-pandemic "normal" is useful to assess where they are, expecting them to be like their equivalents from 2019 who didn't play the education Hokey Cokey is setting them up to fail.

My DC came though covid itself okay - DN I think has it much harder - but DN and my DC schools have changed - for the worse - staff shortages more class room disruption much less pastoral care nosier more chaotic environment they all want out of.

DH is a lecturer and changed university recently - there are some courses at new site still on-line or partially on-line. He thinks shifts in attitude have just accelerated post covid- lack of resilience and complaining - he think it started with tuition fees and changes in education prior to that.

my jaw did drop when I read all the MN and social media posts from parents in the UK not prepared to keep their children and teens in a school routine
Wel, when you are a full time working lone parent of teens and they are sent home with no plan from school and no online lessons for 3 months it was pretty impossible to keep them in a school routine. Even after the school got together some kind of online curriculum I couldn't supervise if they were doing it properly because of needing to keep my job. I'm sure it was the same for many parents. Very stressful times. I also agree that since COVID it has become clear that the choices this next generation face are not all that appealing. The economy has tanked, the shops have shut, everything costs three times as much, their parents can't afford to send them to university, there's no metal health support at all, and half the world has stayed " online" which is incredibly alienating actually. I really feel for them.