Closing all private schools would benefit state schools

[Nimbostratus100]

I've been thinking about that the argument of state schools not being able to accommodate another 7 % of pupils. It really doesn't add up

For one thing, state schools are frequently in a situation of having to accommodate 7% more pupils and they just stretch and cope. It wouldn't be any different.

And each pupil brings in more government funding.

And if all the private schools closed, we would have a fresh pool of 14% more teachers! More funding for teachers in state schools, and a massive increase in numbers of teacher applying!

Given that many vacancies are currently attracting zero applicants, this could be a total game changer!

Of course some teachers in private schools would not apply to state schools, an would just leave teaching instead, and some would not be qualified to teach in state schools.

But then, we wouldn't be taking in 7% more pupils, either, given how many private school pupils are overseas, or have parents overseas, and would just move to board in another country.

So say 5% more pupils, and maybe 12% more teachers! fantastic! even more so when you consider the resources potentially freed up - many of our best resources were donated 10 or 20 years ago by private schools, they might have untold wealth in the form of sports equipment, science equipment, technology, test books, musical instruments! working photocopiers!!! school furniture!

And potentially, even school premises

Do not kid yourself that teacher working in classes of 8-12 are going to move into state classes of 30+.
Also private teachers don't need to have QTS. Would you be happy with that too?
A lot of state schools don't have the land to expand but we could change the laws to increase class sizes i guess.
My kids go to private SEN schools and there isn't enough SEN state schools so that's going to be interesting too.

Also, the government could spend its entire budget on schools but it still wouldn't stop some being awful places with kids and parents who don't value education and who bully the staff and other pupils. Unless you enforced mixed intake by bussing kids around towns to mix up the demographics, you will get leafy middle class "good schools" and the vaping outside the gate, parents in PJ's schools referred to earlier with all the attendant issues that implies. And please let's not have a lot of pearl clutching about stereotypes...we all know these kinds of schools exist. Some of the most fundamental issues in education are due to social issues that are much much harder for a government to address or influence, so they mask it by tinkering with education or headline grabbing ideas like abolishing private schools. It won't help.

People conflate independent schools with private schools.

Most private school teachers would not go back into state school. I’ve got a friend who left indie for state last year. In the good state school she works in the pupil behaviour is appalling. Friend is now leaving in the summer to return to indie Ed.She is barely managing 1 year in a state school.

In an ideal world there is no reason for indie schools but in reality they serve a purpose.

Removing indie schools will not improve the quality of Ed for all children - anyone who thinks this needs to look at what the real issues are and at the moment the government (any government) cannot afford to address the real issues.

This is a great point.
Also saying schools would "just cope" with extra children really fails to recognise that
A) many state schools are on their knees anyway.
And
B) I'm willing to bet that the govt would find ways to wriggle out of giving them the funding that they needed.

So this could well push the state situation into a much worse position.

In the good state school she works in the pupil behaviour is appalling.

Yes, most parents have no idea how bad the behaviour can be in their children's 'good' schools imo. If they could be a fly on the wall they would be horrified.

@EmmaGrundyForPM My ds is on a 50% scholarship. You imagine I could pay for a housekeeper on £9k a year. 😂 And I've yet to find a nanny who will work at 5 minutes notice.

This is the problem. People who think independent schools are all like Eton, simply don't have a clue of the reality.

Many private schools are not businesses at all. Ours is not. It is non profit making. We get copies of the accounts twice a year. I can see the money going into education.

In an ideal world education would be valued by pupils,parents, politicians and society as a whole. We would attend our local school.as all schools would be fit for purpose with motivated staff and pupils. Poor behaviour would be eradicated ,resources would be available for pupils,or staff struggling and the atmosphere would be nurturing. Wishful thinking . Teacher here about to try to.plan lessons for y11.

I don't think left wing people would choose to send their children to really shit state schools when they can afford private. We lean left and went private as moving was not an option and our local school is terrible. We live rurally, we had one option, so we bought ourselves a second option.

We need more schools and not less. I might go for it if each existing private school remained but catered for people without the fee. Obviously they would add to Central government budget.

Expanding existing schools stock in that way would be helpful.

Rather than trying to force more pupils into those hideous 70s buildings.

@Shinyredbicycle not quite true. Some private schools offer to train on the job....you don't need a pgce or qts to teach there

The removal of charitable status will take years and years if it could ever happen at all.

@Snugglemonkey

I've got some aunts and uncles who see themselves as staunchly left and sent dc to private schools and couldn't get one out of the local comp fast enough!

I agree with you OP.

My DC go private because I’m afraid not to and we are lucky that we can afford it. But I feel bad for the students who are left in classes with a high concentration of difficult or unmotivated pupils. I would prefer to see an even mixture across the board - no one advantaged or disadvantaged.

Also the staff at private schools aren't striking at the moment, because they got a reasonable cost-of-living pay increase (passed onto the parents with a fee hike of course)

@MintJulia.. How much do you actually pay then per year

@FrodisCapering yes that's true, but they are not just let loose in a classroom..they are mentored and attend cpd sessions and are observed and undertake a teaching qualification at the same time. Private schools cannot afford to piss off their fee paying parents so any new entrant is, out if necessity, kept a very close eye on so saying they're unqualified and therefore sub-standard is a bit of a red herring

So basically.

You want to take away a choice for some people because you think it would benefit the masses (it wouldn't for SO MANY reasons).

Anything else you don't want people to be able choose/work towards?

Luxury cars? Nope, all have to buy the state approved Lada.

Holy fuck OP those rose tinted glasses are strong

The wealthy buy houses in catchment, force the house prices up and the non-wealthy unable to afford them.

Wealthy parents (generally) are the ones who donate most to fundraising events, get involved as governors and lobby schools/work the head to provide better facilities.

So you end up with schools with better facilities, more involved parents and kids who are also probably receiving additional tutoring or support so those schools end up with better results.

Those schools then become more attractive and more wealthy parents start buying more houses in catchment, driving prices up further.

As for your argument about a bigger pool of teachers, first off state schools do not pay the same wages as private - do you not think that some private school teachers would just say "sod that" and find alternative jobs instead ??

As above, successful schools attract the top teaching talent, meaning they become even MORE successful.

Meanwhile, the schools in the less affluent areas struggle to lobby parents for support, struggle to attract teachers and have a constant stream of supply teachers and fall further and further behind making them even LESS attractive.

@BibbleandSqwauk

I've done some school runs in my pj's.
I'm not your steriotyoe I can assure you and I highly value education...

£9k It's a big stretch for me but the only way I can carry on doing my job.

OP thinks we all have trust funds though.

@KaihahUmoniiv each school is different. That statement is fundamentally untrue that private school teachers got a good CoL increase. We didn't. We also didn't strike because our T&C's are different. For me, whilst my pay is the same as state, my workload is much more manageable so I don't face the same pressures as my state colleagues. I have every sympathy with their situation.

No it wouldn't!

All children should be given the resources they need at their 'local' state school.

Imagine if everyone had no choice but to send their kids to the local school. There would be so much outcry that school funding would have to increase and standards would have to increase.

It staggering that there is not more outrage at what a poor education some schools offer.

Fair and equal education would have a huge impact on society.

Unfortunately when it comes to kids everyone is going to do what is best for their own kids (I include myself in this!) and politicians are even more self serving than a lot of people so want grammars etc for their 'own'