Undercharged petrol - now being fined

[ToPaytheFine]

Hi - I was undercharged for fuel and didnt notice, just tapped and left. I have received a letter and cctv footage which shows me paying. On checking bank statement it turns out I only paid 1p. I didnt check the amount and am 100% OK with paying the full amount, but don't see why I should pay the debt collectors "admin fee" which stood at £30.

I have rung them and they've offered to drop the fine to £10. But should I even pay that? Anyone know consumer law and if it's different for garages as they have told me?

Before I get told, yes I will certainly be more careful checking amounts in future!

I don’t understand how this can happen, the pumps have to be manually released by whoever is in the kiosk don’t they? Surely they must be able to see that the previous person at the pump hasn’t paid for the petrol before they release it for use by the next person? How do they even manage to charge you, say, the previous £15 instead of the £50 that it must be showing after you’ve filled up? That is definitely a flaw in the equipment, or at least the use of the equipment, surely.

Also worth checking with Trading Standards, if their equipment is faulty they could Benin some trouble.

I was thinking the same. If they threaten the police, raise them with Trading Standards. Fuel pumps are very heavily regulated for accuracy to make sure that people are charged the agreed price accurately - and it shouldn't really make a difference in principle whether it's under or over charging.

Not unreasonable but the Tap and Go method of payment these days has taken out a lot of the engagement in the process of paying for goods. If I think about it, despite being very aware of budget and balancing my bank account and checking debits/credits daily, I’m still guilty of wavy wavy paying without even looking tbh.

I completely agree with this. The whole shtick of it now is that you should be able to leave it to the retailer/their bank/their equipment and trust that you will be charged the right amount when you authorise it by waving your card.

The system is actively designed to discourage people from taking their time over a transaction - especially as so many don't even give you a receipt unless you specifically remember to ask for one. Some people might even suggest that it's been done deliberately this way, to make people spend more freely than they might if they had to take the time to count out tangible cash and hand it over, and thus 'feel like' they were 'properly' spending money

It's effectively like an instant direct debit. On the face of it, a DD is potentially a very dangerous thing - and a lot of people still don't trust the system now - but with the DD guarantee, you are protected against anybody abusing it or human/machine error charging you the wrong amount. No retailer/supplier would (for whatever reason) accidentally take the wrong amount by DD and then follow it up by blaming you for their error/incompetence and threatening you with a penalty!

Absolutely agree to the correction and paying what you owe, following their failure to correctly take it when you authorised them to do so; but sending in debt collectors and wanting to fine you for their error is outrageous. They clearly didn't notice it either, as they didn't make any attempt to stop you from driving away having not fully paid. I'd be tempted to threaten them with action for harassment and defamation in branding you a thief because of their failure to properly process an authorised payment.

Even if they'd juts tapped and paid, it quite reasonable to not notice that the amount you're paying for doesn't correlate with the amount you put in on the dial that counts it up. They're 2 separate things, and clearly not linked. I am aware that I'm putting in say £80 of petrol. If I went to the cashier, bought a chocolate bar and a newspaper or whatever, I would just tap the terminal they handed over to me. I'm short so often can't look down on it to see from above. I'd just assume they'd charged me correctly for the petrol when they I supplied the pump number. Lots of busy, short people, people in a hurry, people distracted by kids etc would.

I'd probably pay the £10 to get the debt collectors out of the loop and then go for the company. Their mistake, embarrassment caused, are their staff trained, you expect your £10 back plus a gesture of goodwill.

I used to work in a petrol station (around 2002) and I'm surprised they are even bothering. Even though we had pretty good CCTV, about £800 A WEEK was driven off without paying, not even pretending to come into the shop and they only chased about 1 in 25 offenders. Even then, they rarely got anything back.

If the garage is local I would take cash down, no way would I trust their machine!

Jeez I can't believe in this day and age when police don't turn up for assaults and burglaries that they would pursue this on behalf of a private company. Priorities eh...

You're absolutely right to pay what you owe but not a penny more. If they didn't want to have collected the debt they should have charged you correctly in the first place - if they've incurred costs in chasing this up, that's their idiot tax.

I've had success in the past (not this specific issue) in telling them I'll pay directly what I owe but not a fine/ admin fee but if they continue to make contact with me they are going to incur a charge of £X per hour for my time

Not unreasonable but the Tap and Go method of payment these days has taken out a lot of the engagement in the process of paying for goods. If I think about it, despite being very aware of budget and balancing my bank account and checking debits/credits daily, I’m still guilty of wavy wavy paying without even looking tbh.

Yes, they cut down on labour costs by automating the process, don't employ proper security and don't have a foolproof process and then treat honest consumers who make mistakes in an unwieldy system like criminals.

Once we'd stopped to use a toilet at a non-motorway service station, and ten minutes later a police car pulled us over, blue lights, siren, etc, about the fuel we hadn't paid for. We hadn't bought any fuel. The police officer grudgingly decided to let us off because our car was petrol, and it was diesel that had been stolen.
Priorities indeed.

I'd probably pay the £10 to get the debt collectors out of the loop and then go for the company. Their mistake, embarrassment caused, are their staff trained, you expect your £10 back plus a gesture of goodwill.

No way would I do that. If they can't even process a standard authorised payment, there's no way they would pay back an outrageous fine - that they would claim you admitted guilt in paying in the first place.

At any rate, I've had plenty of occasions in my life where I simply would not have had a spare £10 available to 'lend' to an incompetent company demanding it until I can maybe/maybe not get them to give it back to me.

Once debt collectors have got their money and any fines that they've seen fit to levy, they have no interest whatsoever in re-opening what they will consider a resolved case. At the moment, that ridiculous 'fine' is their only incentive to bother persisting with this.

I'd be having strong words with the petrol station and inform them (in writing) that, if they spent more time ensuring that their transaction processes are fit for purpose and less time running to debt-collectors with only half the story and trying to harass, accuse and extort money from innocent people as punishment for their own errors, they would save themselves a lot of hassle, not alienate their customers (and everybody they then warn not to shop there) and also ensure that they stay on the right side of consumer law.

Email it and copy in Trading Standards. Also give the nod to your local paper, as they always love stories like this.

@Pluvia I don’t understand this. Why would anyone insert card then separately ‘tap’?!

They wouldn't, not in the UK anyway.

Oh my god this is insane!! I didn't even know it was a thing!

I would ask in the Legal topic on here.

That's the process at a rural garage near men — but their equipment is quite old. You put in your card and enter your security code, take it out and then fill up, then you have to authorise again to complete the transaction.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, spunds awful about that poor old lady !@Pluvia I paid at the srstion, they've included a nvery clear pic of me actually doing so. What's getting me is that they've sent a copy of the receipt saying I was a 'drive off".
@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll ...I could do that I guess....the photo of me paying is actually quite flattering ....

@ThoseDamnCrows yes I might ask legal thank you

Once we'd stopped to use a toilet at a non-motorway service station, and ten minutes later a police car pulled us over, blue lights, siren, etc, about the fuel we hadn't paid for. We hadn't bought any fuel. The police officer grudgingly decided to let us off because our car was petrol, and it was diesel that had been stolen.

That's outrageous. What would have happened if you hadn't had a vehicle using different fuel from that (potentially) stolen by a stranger?

What's the actual point of all the CCTV that is ubiquitous now if nobody ever bothers to check it for evidence in prosecuting criminals OR to exonerate innocent people.

How can they expect to be able to randomly accuse people of theft, with no proof at all, and then leave it up to them to disprove it? Especially as you will obviously have fuel in your car, so how can you prove that it wasn't stolen from them? Why is there no come-back on them when people make false accusations with no evidence at all - especially when they have 'stolen' time from you and the police, let alone the stress? They have nothing to lose in blunderbussing out their accusations, do they?

This is some of the stupidest advice I've ever read on mn and tbh there's a lot of competition

Firstly you've admitted that op probably put the card in first to authorise the 1p payment - as such HOW could she then possibly be expected to realise she hadn't paid for the amount she'd actually spent?

Presumably the pump showed the amount she should have paid but as everyone who has ever paid at pump knows you don't then do anything with your card to agree to pay that amount -in fact your card is usually removed from the payment and back in your wallet having been authorised before you even start to fill up. So the only way you'd know how much had been charged is if you later checked your bank statement or app- and how many of us do that religiously after every single transaction? You're casting doubt on op but there's no reason why anyone could have possibly known they'd been undercharged at the time!

Secondly why on earth would you advise her to pay the additional 30 quid when the debt management company has already agreed to knock it down to 10? Peace of mind might apply to the £10 but saying "oh no I will actually pay the whole £30 please is akin to buying a top in the sale but offering to pay full price -ridiculous.

That's the process at a rural garage near men — but their equipment is quite old. You put in your card and enter your security code, take it out and then fill up, then you have to authorise again to complete the transaction.

If they can't be bothered to get modern equipment OR to put up very clear signage, that's on them. Fair enough if (like Mrs Doyle), they like the misery of having to follow up every transaction when customers get understandably confused; but the seeking the still-owing amount is not the problem here: it's the levying of additional fines and defaming people's characters that is outrageous.

I think their offer to drop the fine to £10 seems reasonable - you do share some basic responsibility here as you are the one best-placed to make a mental note of what the pump says when you finish and what the till says when you pay. Someone not capable of noticing their surroundings and actions to that extent may not be a very safe driver.

I’d pay the £10 in order not to use any more of your time and sanity over this. Yes, it’s their fault - but life seems to be like that these days. £10 is not much to pay to free yourself of a load of stress.

I think most people will certainly check the amount showing on the pump. But do they necessarily check that their card is being charged the same amount, especially if they're in a hurry?

I wouldn't pay the £10. It is not your responsibility to ensure their equipment is in full working order. For all you know the correct amount may have appeared on the card machine, it's quite likely you would have noticed if it didn't, and the error happened AFTER that. If they don't cooperate don't forget to start adding your admin fees, after notifying them in writing of course.

I don’t get this?!