Page 5 | Paying cleaner when off

MagicMatilda · 2023-04-09T19:53:57+00:00

DH and I are in a disagreement…our cleaner is taking 3 weeks off for surgery in June. I think we should still pay her but DH thinks we shouldn’t. What would you do? Thanks

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 10/04/2023 19:10

I consider breast reduction to be cosmetic and wouldn’t pay her while off.

Surely it depends on the extent? If it's just wanting a more streamlined look, it may be cosmetic; but if somebody is suffering from debilitating back pain, not so much.

Original poster

MagicMatilda · 10/04/2023 19:12

Yes, she is suffering with them and is getting it done on the NHS. She has been waiting a long time to have it sorted out. It’s not cosmetic for her.

OP posts:

Original poster

MagicMatilda · 10/04/2023 19:14

She has a weeks holiday later this month and that I won’t pay her for. I give her a Christmas bonus and little present at Easter which she really appreciates. I know she won’t be expecting to be paid.

OP posts:

TwoThousandZeroZeroPartyOverOopsFoundMoreTime · 10/04/2023 19:39

HMGov U.K. clarifies this

www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

OP would be muddying the waters

nomoremerlot · 10/04/2023 19:41

TwoThousandZeroZeroPartyOverOopsFoundMoreTime · 10/04/2023 19:39

HMGov U.K. clarifies this

www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

OP would be muddying the waters

I'm happy with my decisions.

jannier · 10/04/2023 20:13

Craftybodger · 10/04/2023 18:19

For illness I might pay half as a good will gesture. I consider breast reduction to be cosmetic and wouldn’t pay her while off.

I guess you're not carrying an extra stone or more on each bra strap suffering neck, shoulder and back pain that causes migraines or the open sores you get under the band from rubbing then.

jannier · 10/04/2023 20:25

Cosyblankets · 10/04/2023 18:30

Think round here is about 14. North West. And I know what you're saying yes I charge more than a cleaner but that doesn't mean I can afford to pay someone to do nothing and then pay someone else to actually do the job

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Even 14 would be way below minimum wage when you factor in down time, travel and not being booked 8 hours a day so really not fair to compare to most self employment regardless of what you can afford. I'd personally if she's fit enough ask for a deep clean before hand and make do with what I can keep on top of myself then pay her a percentage of not all....assuming you get a cleaner once a week it's not a lot to pay but would put food on her table or turn the heating on for a few hours.

Lilyofthevalley23 · 11/04/2023 08:12

BelleMarionette · 09/04/2023 21:15

I have heard that legally you can get yourself in trouble by paying when sick, if someone is self employed, as this can be argued that you are treating them as employed. This obviously has tax implications.

It's tough as usually self employed people don't get paid when off or sick, but cleaners are on a low hourly rate.

I agree with others that have said you shouldn't. It is one of the flags that HMRC will look at if they suspect employment. Employment doesn't have to be full-time - once a week is sufficient and if they are paid whether or not they do the job, the are effectively employed as you have taken the riske element away.

Hoppinggreen · 11/04/2023 08:14

nomoremerlot · 10/04/2023 18:00

You see I think it depends what sort of self employed?

Do you do one off jobs for people, or do a job every week for them, like a cleaner?

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DH has 3-12 month contracts and I used to have 6-12 months ones .

nomoredriving · 11/04/2023 09:09

@Hoppinggreen to be honest, I probably didn't pay sick or holiday for the first three years, so I suppose by then she'd more than proved het value.

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 09:47

ive never thought to pay my cleaner when she’s off. She’s pretty good but I have often suspected she isn’t ill when she’s said and is actually at her other, PAYE job. Or I drive past and see her car at her house/not at her house which doesn’t accord with what she’s told me - like she’s stuck at work 😂 (she doesn’t know but I pass her house on my way to work).

She’s been off for cosmetic surgery too - I wouldnt pay for that.

Cosyblankets · 11/04/2023 12:21

jannier · 10/04/2023 20:25

Even 14 would be way below minimum wage when you factor in down time, travel and not being booked 8 hours a day so really not fair to compare to most self employment regardless of what you can afford. I'd personally if she's fit enough ask for a deep clean before hand and make do with what I can keep on top of myself then pay her a percentage of not all....assuming you get a cleaner once a week it's not a lot to pay but would put food on her table or turn the heating on for a few hours.

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At a guess it'd be 3 hours ish to clean my house. So that's 42 pounds. And the house still needs cleaning. It isn't my responsibility to pay a self employed person when they're not working. If people want the benefits of sick pay they should become an employee and work for an agency.

jannier · 11/04/2023 16:15

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 09:47

ive never thought to pay my cleaner when she’s off. She’s pretty good but I have often suspected she isn’t ill when she’s said and is actually at her other, PAYE job. Or I drive past and see her car at her house/not at her house which doesn’t accord with what she’s told me - like she’s stuck at work 😂 (she doesn’t know but I pass her house on my way to work).

She’s been off for cosmetic surgery too - I wouldnt pay for that.

Breast reduction on the NHS is only for medical reasons it's not cosmetic massive boobs cause horrendous pain and spinal abnormalities

jannier · 11/04/2023 16:20

Cosyblankets · 11/04/2023 12:21

At a guess it'd be 3 hours ish to clean my house. So that's 42 pounds. And the house still needs cleaning. It isn't my responsibility to pay a self employed person when they're not working. If people want the benefits of sick pay they should become an employee and work for an agency.

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Doesn't an agency cost the customer a lot more and mean you get random people in your home? Certainly more than the minimum wage your paying an hour.
Not having the luxury of a cleaner I don't get the issue of having to do it yourself I just fit it in around my 10 hour working day.

Inthesamesinkingboat · 11/04/2023 16:24

I use a cleaning firm. I pay much more as an hourly rate than if I employed a cleaner directly, on the basis that there is always someone sent regardless of whether my usual is on holiday or sick.

personally three weeks off for elective surgery I wouldn’t pay

nomoredriving · 11/04/2023 17:23

Not having the luxury of a cleaner I don't get the issue of having to do it yourself I just fit it in around my 10 hour working day.

🎻

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 18:33

jannier · 11/04/2023 16:15

Breast reduction on the NHS is only for medical reasons it's not cosmetic massive boobs cause horrendous pain and spinal abnormalities

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Who said it was a reduction or on the NHS?

Not I.

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 18:35

jannier · 11/04/2023 16:20

Doesn't an agency cost the customer a lot more and mean you get random people in your home? Certainly more than the minimum wage your paying an hour.
Not having the luxury of a cleaner I don't get the issue of having to do it yourself I just fit it in around my 10 hour working day.

Show quote history

Agencies are useless IME.

Treat yourself, having a good cleaner is liberating.

jannier · 11/04/2023 19:04

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 18:33

Who said it was a reduction or on the NHS?

Not I.

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The op said the cleaners op is a breast reduction on the NHS so it's not cosmetic......you said you wouldn't pay for cosmetic surgery why bring it up if you didn't think this was cosmetic surgery.....?

jannier · 11/04/2023 19:06

Morningcoffeeview · 11/04/2023 18:35

Agencies are useless IME.

Treat yourself, having a good cleaner is liberating.

Show quote history

Not on an average salary with a London mortgage bad enough not knowing how I'm going to afford getting to work come ULEZ .

jannier · 11/04/2023 19:07

Inthesamesinkingboat · 11/04/2023 16:24

I use a cleaning firm. I pay much more as an hourly rate than if I employed a cleaner directly, on the basis that there is always someone sent regardless of whether my usual is on holiday or sick.

personally three weeks off for elective surgery I wouldn’t pay

Why do you think it's elective? Just because she won't die of it doesn't mean the spinal issues it can cause won't cause disability

TwoThousandZeroZeroPartyOverOopsFoundMoreTime · 11/04/2023 19:10

A number of PP are being stupid and it's very difficult when stupid is your default

As it has been explained

She's either self employed and gets no sick leans or AL cover or you are telling us she's employed and you are not fulfilling your employer responsibilities

Pick your poison

nomoredriving · 11/04/2023 19:13

@jannier so it's that you can't afford it? Not that you're so very able to fit it in around your 10 hour working day?

nomoredriving · 11/04/2023 19:15

TwoThousandZeroZeroPartyOverOopsFoundMoreTime · 11/04/2023 19:10

A number of PP are being stupid and it's very difficult when stupid is your default

As it has been explained

She's either self employed and gets no sick leans or AL cover or you are telling us she's employed and you are not fulfilling your employer responsibilities

Pick your poison

Mines SE and I pay her for sick leave and holidays!

I'm not concerned that HMRC or my cleaner will be knocking on my door...

And I'm not stupid.

TwoThousandZeroZeroPartyOverOopsFoundMoreTime · 11/04/2023 19:15

If you want her to be an employee cleaner / PA then you have to sort out employer liability, her tax and NI and possible pension. Contributions

No point you listening to the "pay her cash" gang

Do what you want but realise that you are muddying waters
And making yourself liable if she hasn't paid tax

I'd stick to self employed status for cleaner if I were you.