Is it lazy for supply teachers not to work in the school holidays?

[strwmofthebnak]

If someone is in their early 20's, graduated from uni last year as a qualified primary school teacher, moved back home with parents and is currently looking for a contracted teaching job. So applying and going to interviews but has so far been unsuccessful in securing a job. Therefore since they qualified they have been working for an agency doing supply work. This means they have 12 weeks a year they do not get paid in. Would you expect them to find alternative employment in the school holidays as it's not on to have 3 months of year not working and not being paid?

What employment would they find that was happy for them to just turn up in school holidays?
And to others asking similar questions: A couple of my friends' children are young teachers (regular not supply) but want to supplement their income saving for house deposits etc.
One works some of most holidays in a daycare nursery as their regular staff want to take holidays with their own children. Another works at a different nursery that runs holiday clubs, so they need staff over the holidays that they don't during term time.
Not well paid but more than they'd have if they didn't work and an addition to their CVs.

Direct with a school / LEA rather than with an agency, supply teachers should get the same as a perm teacher. Their pay will be 1/195 (or 193 this year) of a full time salary, meaning that if they work every possible day they earn the same across the year. Pay will vary month to month though.

Through an agency they will probably receive less. Some agencies will pay holiday pay throughout the year, some will keep it back and require the supply teacher to claim it.

It is also worth checking the contract from the agency, they may have a clause to pay 1/2 pay etc if they can't find the teacher work. A few years ago when I was in supply I did this - week 1 of summer holidays, called every day to say I was available. I then asked them about the pay for that week. They were surprised (don't think anyone had held them to it) but obviously realised they couldn't wriggle out and paid up.

No, in the same way Ft teachers don't work during the holidays.

It’s literally not worth a teacher at the top of the pay scale in Scotland doing anything extra, to be honest. I think this will probably impact people doing exam marking and stuff. I have already signed up for it this year so it’ll be interesting to see how they tax it - previously it was all at 20%; but now that we have had the pay rise I’d be surprised if it was not at 40%.

Which means working every evening for many extra hours for three weeks for £400ish, over and above the 50+ hours I ordinarily work per week.

It really isn’t worth it, and that applies to supply teachers too, since most of them DO get a wage paid during the holidays; and the only way to avoid the higher tax rate is to cut your supply contract and then hope they refresh it the next year.

The majority of people commenting on this are again, experts in all things teaching, who have never been a teacher.

I didn't say it applied only to teaching.

Because that is their legal right.

not so much 2 weeks (although there is ongoing intermittent work they could do more of over the holidays, e.g. tutoring, leafleting, bar work, whatever) but they could definitely work over the summer holidays - when my friend (a teacher) was saving for a house he would work the council's summer camp for kids for 4 weeks of the holidays - it was only 9.30-3.30 so he still got lie in and was at the beach to fit in a few hours of surfing and drinks with his mates in the evenings, plus 2 weeks off to go away, but made quite a chunk of money, and was pretty easy work too, just playing with/supervising the kids rather than needing to plan lessons etc. Another teacher friend did a bit of bar work a few nights over the summer holidays.

OP it depends - I don't think anyone should HAVE to work just for the sake of it if they don't need to. However if the teacher is paying their parents some money for rent then they need to pay that regardless - if they have managed their money well enough to do it without working over the summer that's not a problem, if they haven't they should get a job to be able to do so.

Scotland might be different as I know tax is different there, but as someone who has done 2 jobs in E&W, and someone who has teacher friends and family members who have done the same, the second job is taxed at a max of 20% (emergency rate, and this is then amended at the end of the year and usually results in a refund) unless your overall earnings add up to over the £50k limit - which a supply teacher recently graduated is very unlikely to do, unless the second job earns more than the supply one!

Again, different if you've been working full time for years and are at the top of the scale - but that's not what OP is asking.

You don’t have to have been working “full time” for years, and there is no assumption if the OP was in England.

If OP is in Scotland, a supply teacher earns at least £38k, providing they work regularly. Anything over £43k pay 42% tax.

That is, of course, forgetting the very important fact that the supply teacher WILL in fact get paid over summer.

So, @strwmofthebnak , are you coming back to tell us any more ?

Are you the teacher being accused of being lazy?
Are you a parent of this teacher? or partner?
Have they been working FT or just done odd days, or somewhere in between?
Are they relying on you to subsidise them ?

Their choice, as long as they do not expect taxpayers to subsidise the nature of their working pattern.

Oh piss off 🤣 Supply teachers still pay tax.

@WeeWillyWinkie9 do contract workers, that are contracted for certain weeks etc get holiday pay?

I didn't think they did?

Why and how would they expect tax payers to do that? Are you suggesting that teachers sign on over the summer?

Haven’t RTFT. If the supply teacher is expecting someone else to subsidize them/pay all the bills during the summer holidays, for example, that’s not on-unless that person is happy to do so.

I’m guessing you’re the parent and your adult child is expecting you to financially support them during the summer. I personally don’t think it’s realistic to find a job during the shorter holidays.

My dad is a retired teacher and for years and years he worked other jobs during all of the school holidays….. on fishing boats, building sites, picking fruit & veg, factory work etc

My mum did the same in her first 10 years of teaching. She cleaned caravans and picked daffodils.

@RecklessBlackberries when I was a supply teacher I had a second job that was school hols only - childcare at a school hols club.

It’s not about being lazy……if they need to top up their pay then they will need to work in hols, if they don’t, they won’t. Weird question

No, as long as they were financially independent, I wouldn't be slave driving them.

During court vacations (which make up a good 2-3 months of the year, mainly in between Trinity and Michaelmas term, but not just then), lots of my colleagues would be off in some lovely tropical country or just spending time with their kids.

Most jobs have built in vacations because of their nature. I imagine the holiday period is essential for teachers to decompress from the hell of daily teaching and out-of-hours daily work, especially in the UK's overstretched school system.

Just because teachers earn less (I assume this is the basis of the question as otherwise it doesn't make sense?) doesn't mean the demands of their job should be regarded any less highly!

People really need to read the full OP not just the title. Question seems a little less weird then....

It's not 'lazy' of all supply teachers to not work.
It may be lazy for a particular person to not work and expect parents to cover for that, unless they saved up enough to survive the summer.