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AIBU?

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Original poster

Not to like censorship...

63 replies

Greenfairydust · 09/04/2023 09:50

I am going to start this thread saying that I am not gender critical in any way.

But I am really concerned that threads are being deleted on the forum because they are discussing the Nike/DM controversy.

I disagree with gender critical feminists but I 100% support their right to discuss their concerns openly and this gives people like me a chance to put a counter-argument.

Censorship is never the answer.

OP posts:
strawberryjeans · 09/04/2023 09:58

YANBU

FOJN · 09/04/2023 10:04

I'm gender critical but I support your right to hold and express a different view which means whilst we disagree on one issue we agree on another.

Aprilx · 09/04/2023 10:08

I don’t know what gender critical even means. But I commented on a Nike thread earlier, I don’t know why it would be removed.

sst1234 · 09/04/2023 10:13

Because it’s progressive innit?

Dudes in dresses prancing around pretending to be girls. 100 genders. Grooming of children in the classroom, even babies and toddlers by exposing them to inappropriate material. Paedophilia dressed up as fashion.

And the people who question it are deemed the problematics ones?

We are being conditioned to accept this dangerous, deprived nonsense. Do not give in.

SunshineGeorgie · 09/04/2023 10:28

MNHQ are funny about threads regarding gender

I think their default is to just delete them.....spirited away is clearly the answer!!

grayhairdontcare · 09/04/2023 10:36

I think it's fucking disgusting that people can't post their views and debate the issues surrounding gender.
It's wokeness at it finest by MNHQ

rewilded · 09/04/2023 10:38

What have nike done?

grayhairdontcare · 09/04/2023 10:39

Also Nike can Fuckoff !

CaptainWarbeck · 09/04/2023 10:50

Agree. Debate is key to reaching some sort of consensus. No debate is just dictatorship.

FOJN · 09/04/2023 10:51

There is a different and much stricter moderation policy for discussions around gender ideology.

The posters on the other thread were as scathing as they would be about anyone else in the public eye who was behaving ridiculously. I've seen far worse written on MN about politicians.

suzyscat · 09/04/2023 10:57

YANBU it's ludicrous.

There is a whole range of feelings, many at the extreme ends, about gender within my friendship group, but we are able to discuss it and more importantly remember not to only discuss it. We know that everyone wants what they think is best and none of us have transformed massively from the people we were years ago. We differ in what we think is best.

I feel like the art of disagreeing and discussion has been lost and it's a very and thing for personal resilience, society and the future.

BuffyTheCat · 09/04/2023 11:03

I agree: we need frank and civil discussion of these issues. It’s really complex and yet it’s constantly oversimplified by both sides.

Blueblell · 09/04/2023 11:09

It’s the way things have gone in our society. We are no longer capable of debating ideas in a civilised way or agreeing to disagree. Instead we have to conform or face the consequences.

FOJN · 09/04/2023 11:37

BuffyTheCat · 09/04/2023 11:03

I agree: we need frank and civil discussion of these issues. It’s really complex and yet it’s constantly oversimplified by both sides.

This issue is only complex if you believe it's possible for humans to change sex. It becomes much more straight forward if you accept the material reality of biological sex and do not think facts should be subordinate to peoples feelings.

SerendipityJane · 09/04/2023 11:56

The problem with censorship is that it follows the same path as the joke that ends "now we're just arguing about the price".

Squiblet · 09/04/2023 12:26

FOJN · 09/04/2023 11:37

This issue is only complex if you believe it's possible for humans to change sex. It becomes much more straight forward if you accept the material reality of biological sex and do not think facts should be subordinate to peoples feelings.

Show quote history

The facts are straightforward, yes. It's the people's feelings that are complex.

And, like it or not, it's a highly emotive topic that can't simply be settled by saying, "facts trump feelings, therefore you'll need to change all your emotions soz."

grayhairdontcare · 09/04/2023 12:32

@Squiblet but facts trump feelings in all others areas of life.
No one is saying someone can't be comfortable in who the are or who they want to be.
But the fact is that unless you have xx chromosomes then you are not a biological woman and do not need to be paid of Nike to advertise a sports bra for breast you don't have !

Squiblet · 09/04/2023 12:46

but facts trump feelings in all others areas of life.

No they don't. Facts and feelings are intertwined in nearly every sphere of public life. Look at gun control in the US - statistics show that countries with fewer guns in private hands experience fewer deaths by shooting, but many Americans have strong feelings about gun ownership, and the gun control campaigners have to take that into account. They can't just ignore it. Similarly, free speech - there are any number of things you could say that might be factually true but would cause huge offence. We all negotiate people's feelings all the time, as a way of maintaining societal cohesion.

I don't know much about the Nike issue, and certainly it should be discussed. But it's not going to help the GC cause to keep saying, "the facts are on our side so we're right and you're wrong". This will only entrench everyone's positions even deeper and make any kind of dialogue impossible.

grayhairdontcare · 09/04/2023 12:49

But the fact is he is not a woman.
He is a man !
I don't give a shiny shit who that offends.
He has no idea about needing breast support during exercise.
It's just wokeness gone crazy!

TheKeatingFive · 09/04/2023 12:51

If you need the other side to be censored in order to assert your pov, then that says it all really.

But what is motivating people to play along with this bollocks. That's my question.

TheKeatingFive · 09/04/2023 12:54

But it's not going to help the GC cause to keep saying, "the facts are on our side so we're right and you're wrong". This will only entrench everyone's positions even deeper and make any kind of dialogue impossible.

But if I said my 'feelings' were that I was actually African America, that was my identity and it should be respected, you, rightly, wouldn't give that the time of day.

So why should these 'feelings' be respected and others not?

Jonei · 09/04/2023 12:58

It's really very simple. Misogyny at it's finest. The only added complexity is wide spread state sanctioned violence from men towards women, and women being silenced, losing their jobs, etc for speaking out. People thought the 1980s was bad? This is far far worse.

beastlyslumber · 09/04/2023 13:03

I agree, and feel the same way about the anti vax posts and any other posts really. As long as they're not breaking any laws I really don't see why MN feels the need to get involved. Inflammatory comments can be reported and deleted without taking down whole threads. People want to talk about this stuff!

Squiblet · 09/04/2023 13:05

But if I said my 'feelings' were that I was actually African America, that was my identity and it should be respected, you, rightly, wouldn't give that the time of day.

I would, though, if I wanted to keep talking to you. Not just agreeing blindly but also not dismissing you with "nope, you're mistaken" and thereby making you my lifelong enemy.

I'd hope that if we were to live in the same society, we would talk in a way that respected feelings and opened doors to compromise.

But I think, on this website, I'm in a minority.

Startwithamimosa · 09/04/2023 13:05

I'm surprisingly, I've seen very hateful ones in the past which have shocked me so I'm surprised now all of a sudden they're being deleted