Page 2 | Anyone else hate the quote "in the wrong place at the wrong time"

SleepDreamThinkHuge · 2023-04-07T20:11:58+00:00

You hear it for rapes, murders, muggings etc.. What do you think of the quote?

alexdgr8 · 07/04/2023 21:37

i know what it refers to, but i have never liked it either.
the use of the word wrong, twice, of the victim, seems to subliminally suggest they were not exercising enough caution.

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/04/2023 21:47

Exactly it is trying to find some justification for a crime which there can never be any.

I interpret it as the exact opposite. That someone did nothing wrong, it was bad luck that they were the victim rather than someone else. The crime remains just as dreadful.

I see it as an antidote to the endless 'they should have used a cab/worn different clothes/walked home with a friend' all of which IS victim blaming.

UthredofBattenberg · 07/04/2023 21:53

I know what you mean. I understand the sentiment that is meant behind it, but there was a case near me where a man was stabbed to death by a gang of lads. It was very much reported"wrong place wrong time" in the news.

But he wasn't, he was just going about his business like anyone is entitled to, he was in the right place, (where he wanted to be) at the the right time, (when he wanted to be). Just like every other person who has been in the "wrong place wrong time".

Same situation for me, I was randomly beaten up as a teen, life can be random and cruel, but I was where I was meant to be at the time I was meant to be...

BibbleandSqwauk · 07/04/2023 21:53

It's also far preferable to any sort of "everything happens for a reason" kind of crap, as though there's a planned chain of events and eventually something good will happen as an indirect consequence of the awful thing so that makes it ok. Much of life is random, for both good and I'll.

Hoolihan · 07/04/2023 21:53

No I don't hate it at all. Life is random, messy and unfair.

The saying I really do hate is 'everything happens for a reason'.

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 07/04/2023 21:58

I think it depends on how you interpret the phrase. For most people the place and time is wrong because that's where and when the bad thing happened and the victim was unlucky that they, completely innocently, were there at that time. It seems you interpret it as suggesting that the victim was wrong to be in that place at that time which is not how I understand it.

Kanaloa · 07/04/2023 22:02

It isn’t justifying any horrific crimes. It’s saying that the victim did nothing wrong and could not have prevented it - they just happened to be existing in the wrong place and crossed paths with the wrong person through no fault of their own. Justifying horrific crimes would be saying ‘they went to the wrong place when they shouldn’t have, it was their own fault.’

Oldnproud · 07/04/2023 22:14

Kanaloa · 07/04/2023 22:02

It isn’t justifying any horrific crimes. It’s saying that the victim did nothing wrong and could not have prevented it - they just happened to be existing in the wrong place and crossed paths with the wrong person through no fault of their own. Justifying horrific crimes would be saying ‘they went to the wrong place when they shouldn’t have, it was their own fault.’

This, exactly.

Oldnproud · 07/04/2023 22:19

UthredofBattenberg · 07/04/2023 21:53

I know what you mean. I understand the sentiment that is meant behind it, but there was a case near me where a man was stabbed to death by a gang of lads. It was very much reported"wrong place wrong time" in the news.

But he wasn't, he was just going about his business like anyone is entitled to, he was in the right place, (where he wanted to be) at the the right time, (when he wanted to be). Just like every other person who has been in the "wrong place wrong time".

Same situation for me, I was randomly beaten up as a teen, life can be random and cruel, but I was where I was meant to be at the time I was meant to be...

Yeah, but the saying isn't implying that the person was in the incorrect place or at the incorrect time.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 07/04/2023 22:22

I don't hate it and I don't think it blames the victim - it indicates that what happened was like being struck by lightning, just bad luck.

TooBigForMyBoots · 07/04/2023 22:31

Jojobees · 07/04/2023 21:21

As a victim of “wrong place wrong time” the phrase fits and actually helps. Makes me feel it was less about me are more about chance/circumstance.

Me too.

@SleepDreamThinkHuge I see no victim blaming in the statement. Things would have been different for me if I had been just a few metres away. But I wasn't. It doesn't make any of it my fault.

UsingChangeofName · 07/04/2023 22:36

It isn’t justifying any horrific crimes. It’s saying that the victim did nothing wrong and could not have prevented it - they just happened to be existing in the wrong place and crossed paths with the wrong person through no fault of their own.

This, exactly.

It isn't just crimes either - it can be complete accidents (I think of the lady that was killed a few years ago not far from here, when something came off a roof in a high wind, when she was just walking down the street), or an act of nature - people struck by lightening for example.

alexdgr8 · 08/04/2023 21:30

the words wrong and incorrect are almost synonymous.
with the added moral undertones to the word wrong.
this is why i do not like it.
let's look at the non-vacuous contrast, eg, i missed my appt because i went to the wrong hosp on the wrong day.
which would be my mistake.
so i think better to say it was a random occurrence or crime.

girlfriend44 · 08/04/2023 21:46

It's a stupid thing to say. They were just going about their lives.

duvetcovereddissident · 08/04/2023 21:48

you should read Ben Elton Identity Crisis, a policeman gets taken off a case and cancelled for saying this!

It is a spoof

itsgettingweird · 08/04/2023 22:06

I think the phrase has its merits.

For example when a roof collapses or a storm hits.

But I agree with posters who say when it's human action that causes an issue it's not the victim in the wrong place or wrong time.

The perpetrator is 100% in the wrong

MichaelAndEagle · 08/04/2023 22:16

Its a different use of the word wrong.
The person wasn't in the wrong to be there, its not meant to imply blame on their part.

ThereIbledit · 09/04/2023 00:46

If there is nothing wrong with the quote say someone close to you got murdered would you actually tell them "Billy was in the wrong place at the wrong time." I can never say that to someone. So what makes it okay to tell them that indirectly. If you can say something indirectly then that means it is not that bad and you can also say it directly to someone.

Nobody says Billy got murdered because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. A murder is a premeditated event, not tragic accident. If somebody did choose to use the phrase for that situation, it would be a poor choice of words for that situation.

If Billy got killed because he was walking past a chemical factory and there was an explosion, that would be a more accurate use of the phrase.

"Poor Billy died because he was walking home from work and was right on the footpath outside the factory at 3.02pm when it blew up. Poor guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time." - reads fine.

"Billy got murdered by the guy who had held a grudge against him ever since he reported that crime to the police. He was killed outside his own home. Poor Billy was in the wrong place at the wrong time." - that one doesn't read okay because when it is the murder of somebody by another person who intended to murder them, the phrase just doesn't make sense. Billy would have been murdered at some other time or place regardless (or at least an attempt on his life would have been made).

It doesn't mean he was wrong to be in that place or there at that time. he wasn't mistaken, nor was he guilty of anything. It just means that something unexpected happened to him that wouldn't have happened to him if he'd have been there a bit earlier or a bit later, or somewhere else entirely. It was an accident of fate.

ThereIbledit · 09/04/2023 00:58

But I agree with posters who say when it's human action that causes an issue it's not the victim in the wrong place or wrong time.

The perpetrator is 100% in the wrong

The perpetrator can be 100% in the wrong and the phrase still be valid - and comforting to those who use it.

My friends were killed in a car accident. A drunk driver came around a bend too fast and crashed into them. If they'd have been a few seconds earlier or later, they would still be alive and not dead at just 18 years old.

It is 100% the drunk driver's fault that they died.

Doesn't stop it also being true that if they'd have just been a few seconds earlier or later, or decided to sleep at the other friend's house instead of driving home on that road that night, they would have lived. It was a horrible coincidence/twist of fate that they just happened to be in the exact path of the out of control vehicle at the exact time that it flew across the road. What other way of expressing that thought is there? Because it is a thought that went through our heads a lot in the aftermath. If they'd have just this, if only that, if only the traffic lights had've been red and held them back a minute or two longer, if only we'd have chatted a bit less before they left... but it was just a tragic case of them being at X marks the spot at exactly Y time.

As their friends, we used the phrase a lot to discuss it. I can't remember much of one funeral but I can remember at the other funeral her poor dad using the phrase in the eulogy. It was a phrase that helped a lot of us 17 and 18 year olds make "sense" of a senseless situation.

Never once was it used to excuse the primary cause of the accident: the drunk driver (who also lost his life in the accident).

JudgeRudy · 09/04/2023 06:17

I not sure what irritates you OP
Is it that the phrase sounds so twee or casual when it's usually about something pretty catastrophic or are you being pedantic from a language perspective and saying that actually, there was nothing 'wrong' about their timing or placement. What was 'wrong' was the rapist/murderer/drunk drivers behavior, or at the very least they were in an UNFORTUNATE place or time to eg be hit by lightning. Saying 'wrong' somehow blames them

YellowGreenBlue · 09/04/2023 06:22

I interpret this phrase as the opposite of victim blaming. It's emphasising that this could have happened to anyone (so the victim did nothing wrong).

Goodread1 · 09/04/2023 06:28

I know what you mean in your Mumsnet thread,

But I also get the sheer random nature of life,

And the catsphoric effect of the potential victim coming across one of life's Arseholes , such as Drink Driver , A Rapist/Murder ect that could be by chance 😳 grabbed that opportunity to one of the massive Shits/Arseholes 💩💩💩 to Walk planet 🌏

Goodread1 · 09/04/2023 06:32

Typo omissions to be I ment to say

PixiePirate · 09/04/2023 06:35

I completely agree with you. IMO it comes across as passively removing all focus from the act itself by focusing on the victim and their movements.

For me it’s definitely not driven by discomfort around the randomness of such events/my own vulnerability, as suggested by a pp. I just find it glib and feel it can be used to close down any focus on the incident itself.

As another pp said, I vividly remember the line from Little Boy Blue, and always think of Rhys when I hear that phrase. Victim blaming in the extreme.

alexdgr8 · 09/04/2023 20:46

i wonder when it started being used of crimes etc.
i don't remember ever hearing it when i was young.
where did it come from i wonder.
perhaps people who have grown up with it find it more acceptable.
i don't.
PixiePirate above makes the point v well, and i agree.