to ask about the EHCP thresholds

[iwonderwhatisusedtobe]

Looking for some insight on what a child's needs are to meet threshold to get an EHCP. I've read quite a bit about children who have managed to achieve good A-levels etc while on an EHCP either at mainstream or special school which is fantastic - as it should be. And I know that ECHPs can be given to support emotional needs as well as academic.

My DS has ASD, is doing poorly academically and is under CAMHs for his anxiety levels/mental health difficulties and yet I've been told by the school that they don't think he needs an EHCP. To be fair to the school they have made various adjustments for him and access to some interventions. But DS has a lot of anxiety and is not performing well academically. At the current rate I would image he will get a couple of 4s at gcse and the rest well below this. He masks however, so his attendance is good and the the fall out is at home after school.

I know the school is the best judge as they have the best measure of what need merits an EHCP. But it would be good to hear from others who are are in a similar situation and how they have been supported, or those whose child has an EHCP and understand better the difference in need, or any teachers. I really don't want to cause any offence with this question as I do fully appreciate that many children's needs will be far greater than my sons.

@stopthepigeon It stems from the knowledge DC whose parents know the system, can advocate and enforce their DC’s rights get better support. It shouldn’t be like that and it is the most vulnerable DC who suffer the most, but sadly it isn’t going to change any time soon. All children and young people should have their needs met and unfortunately, given the current climate, that is only going to happen if parents are supported to enforce their DC’s rights.

Thank you for all the support to parents you provide here.

Schools.dont always won't the do the paperwork for an EHCP or pay out the first £6k of funding so in some ways it's better for them that he doesn't have one.

Apply yourself with the helpmof your local information advisory service. Check out your council website for the local offer and go from there

@stopthepigeon Many years ago under a different name I received support from MN’ers I could never repay. The support wasn’t about EHCPs/schools etc. but I now like to give back.

This sounds amazing. Is it a state school? Was it named in her EHCP?

State schools cannot be a best fit for everyone. Many of these children need specialist provision in specialist schools that can provide them with safe and supported provision. Many of the parents will still not accept this because they do not want them labelled and insist on mainstream school places. Then find out that extra support just can't happen here, and complain that it's not working. Thus the cycle continues.

I know ECHPs can be awarded for mental health difficulties, but most students with mental health issues, even those under CAMHS don't have ECHPs- I've only really seen it when students reach the point of school refusing to try to help to secure them alternative educational provision.

Obviously the combination of ASD/anxiety means there are quite complex needs, and the assessment involved may be useful to try to identify some strategies to help etc.

And ECHP would give him educational support to 25, which may be useful?

I would also add that due to funding restrictions etc in schools, getting the ECHP is often the first step, and then you may have to fight for provisions to actually be delivered.

What would you like the outcome of the ECHP to be? If you have something tangible in mind, that may help?

The issue here is that a lot of LAs are acting unlawfully when it comes to EHCPs by increase the thresholds necessary to get an assessment or, once assessed, be granted an EHCP. They then pass their inflated thresholds to schools who then won't apply because the LA tells them there's no point: the child won't get it.

There are two thresholds a child must meet in order to qualify for an assessment:

1. there must either be identified and diagnosed SEN or there be suspected SEN.
2. it may be necessary to have an EHCP in order to secure the SEN provision needed for the child. (Note, this doesn't mean a special school place).

The second is where LAs play it fast and loose. They often claim that, if a school is managing to even roughly meet the needs of the child then an EHCP is not required to secure the provision the child needs. That's where they start saying X amount needs spending first or Y hours must be given as 1:1 support before applying. Parents can push back against this and are often successful. Schools, unfortunately, often cannot. Don't get me wrong: if all of a child's needs are being met without an EHCP then they may not need one. But you also need to consider whether those needs will be met when they move/leave their current setting.

Meeting these two criteria grants an assessment but it's quite possible to be assessed and to be judged as not qualifying. Parents can, again, push back against this but success rates here are lower (depending on the LA).

What can be true though, especially in LAs like mine, is that parental applications are taken way more seriously than school applications. My LA see that as a sign that the parents are serious and will likely appeal if they don't get it and, as such, are significantly more likely to assess the child and grant an EHCP if the parent applies.

Worth noting as well that, recently, LAs have been encouraging more annual reviews to reflect on whether an EHCP is still needed at that time (often while discussing the successful progress they've made). It used to be that once you had one, you had it into early adulthood. Now, we are seeing some children having their EHCP removed as they are deemed not to need it anymore.

In my experience school is the last group I would ask to judge whether your child needs an EHCP as unless your child is likely to go to a specialist facility it will directly affect their budget

Our case was much like yours, DD spectacularly failed to transition to secondary, they sat on my bright child, didn’t send her to a lesson for 6 months and refused to apply for an EHCP using the old chestnut of ‘threshold’

I applied myself, moved DD to an online school and the local authority held a meeting, listened to us and took over funding of her place before an EHCP was even issued

DD did well, she had her struggles with anxiety/ASD etc but managed to pass with 8’s and A* at A level, she still needed an EHCP to access suitable education

DD is now at University and tracking for a high first because we refused to take the school’s excuse and judgement that there was no need for an EHCP and forced the issue

Did she need an EHCP? absolutely because although she was bright her disabilities were stopping her accessing an appropriate education

It's a tough one, my dd had "school action plus" this was 10 years ago, she has asd resulting in severe generalised anxiety, depression and various lettered conditions, i forget the latest list! School action plus combined with a proactive camhs counsellor and nurse practitioner specialising in autism meant we got everything needed, separate provision within a mainstream school, essentially a quiet place to work and both a lap top and work packs, classroom was usually too noisy, separate lunch provision for her and 2 named friends, could leave class 5 mins ahead of the bell if not in separate provision, time out cards, no pressure to actually attend etc. But dd was very bright, she could teach herself (got a*'s) I'm not sure schools have the resources with the extra funding if they need extra teaching.

I thought at least some of the problem was the other way around? There are lots of kids with additional needs who would thrive in mainstream and benefit from the breadth of curriculum, social opportunities, etc, but mainstream schools are increasingly unwilling to make the necessary adjustments. Including even the reasonable adjustments they have a legal obligation to make...

Absolutely, but time is taken up with the children with really severe needs that would be better supported elsewhere.

Yes, a state school. Not named in her EHCP, as we didn't get one until she went there. They also have extension provision for the academically able that are aiming for Oxbridge/RG unis.

We are very lucky, I know. But it is sad that so many state schools have a different ethos. So much of the support DD gets is not something that costs money, it is the way all members of staff are committed to understanding her needs so her anxiety is reduced.

Lots of claims schools don't want students to have an EHCP here.

Absolutely false. We can get up to £30k funding from an EHCP. 90% of the time, we have no control over our school rolls, so a child who needs an EHCP will be put forward.

It might be they've said it's unlikely, and that's true. Most of the time, the LA kick it back to in school provision as they don't want to spend the funding.

Apply yourself. DD2's school point blank refused to help by applying for an Needs Assessment. They said she wouldn't meet threshold. I did a Subject Access Request and used that information in my request for an EHCNA.

Not only did we get the EHCP, but DD1 was given a place in an independent specialist school and was allowed to repeat year 10, as she had been out of school by the time the process completed. She now has a class of 3 with a TA that accompanies the class to all their lessons. However, with individualised timetables, she is sometimes the only one in her class.

DD1 has ASD and now has weekly Speech and Language Therapy to help her with social interactions. She also has weekly occupational therapy.

Oh my goodness, thank you for sharing this because it is exactly the outcome I’m hoping for and DS’ school and SENCO have told me (again!) I have zero chance of him being allowed to resit year 10. We’ve found a wonderful independent specialist school who are only willing to take him if he resits year 10.
I hope your DD is doing well.

Absolutely false.

Sadly, it isn’t false in many schools. It might be your personal experience but up and down the country in many schools it is true. Funding isn’t capped at £30k either.

Is the school wholly independent or a section 41 independent? Because if it is a section 41 school and you don’t manage to get being educated out of chronological year group written into the EHCP the school can be named against their will.

We had to do it in two stages. We got the EHCP and the placement in the independent special school. Then we pushed for deceleration, with support from her (very highly specialist) SALT and school support. They took that to a panel and agreed it.

Wholly independent @FloatingBean

Thank you everyone x

@FloatingBean just checked on the government website and it’s section 41 approved. Does that mean the EHCP can name it regardless? Thank you so much for your help

It's interesting to hear this perspective.

Real reluctance here - not sure if it is just pressure of work (which I have sympathy for at a human level)? Or also a culture of inflexibility - there is a resistance to do anything other than the norm, even if it doesn't cost money and is a legal obligation eg. applying the behaviour policy differently for disability-related behaviours.

Section 41 means that the school can be compelled to take the child.