£5k discount on heat pump, con?

northeasrer · 2023-04-06T19:24:55+00:00

So I've responded to an advert on Facebook for a heat pump. I've read on LinkedIn all houses can use them but also some horror stories. The sales man told me I needed to get the calculations done at my own cost plus a new EPC, despite it being in date and not even recommended. The heat pumps cost £3.5k to buy from Google and cost the company wanted to charge me £16k in total and I would be out of pocket £11k. As it uses my existing radiators, surely it won't be an install of £11.5k?

LovelyBitOfSquirrrel · 06/04/2023 20:28

Hi my husband sells heating systems such as heat pumps and they would never charge for calculations. The sales man would come to your house, go through your needs and work out what you need and provide a no obligation quote.

It sounds a bit dodgey it’s an advert from Facebook, I’d look for a reputable company.

Franklin2000 · 06/04/2023 20:29

From a fraud point of view I’d be extremely cautious of Facebook ads. If you’re paying by cash or bank transfer, your money is gone, no protection. Read reviews online about the company, if there aren’t any or if they’re bad, alarm bells should ring. I can’t help on the heat pump but I’d be getting several quotes and maybe messaging companies local to you for advice and prices.

Original poster

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 20:33

LovelyBitOfSquirrrel · 06/04/2023 20:28

Hi my husband sells heating systems such as heat pumps and they would never charge for calculations. The sales man would come to your house, go through your needs and work out what you need and provide a no obligation quote.

It sounds a bit dodgey it’s an advert from Facebook, I’d look for a reputable company.

Thanks. Do you mind asking him if he would recommend it for a house with no wall insulation?

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Thebestwaytoscareatory · 06/04/2023 20:40

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 20:33

Thanks. Do you mind asking him if he would recommend it for a house with no wall insulation?

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If you're house's EPC isn't at least B rated I wouldn't bother looking a heat pump, you'll just end up worse off.

Even then you'd want to make sure the house is actually performing at that level ad there's often a performance gap between the EPC rating and real life energy efficiency performance of buildings.

LovelyBitOfSquirrrel · 06/04/2023 20:41

He said it’s not a complete no if no wall insulation but it means other things must be well insulated (double glazing, loft insulation etc) but it is down to the company to come and survey your house and check this for you, again there should be no cost for this.

greenjojocat · 06/04/2023 20:42

I would stay well clear! We have an ASHP with limited insulation and our energy bills have been up to £580 over the winter. You'd be better to spend your money on insulation IMO

Original poster

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 21:11

LovelyBitOfSquirrrel · 06/04/2023 20:41

He said it’s not a complete no if no wall insulation but it means other things must be well insulated (double glazing, loft insulation etc) but it is down to the company to come and survey your house and check this for you, again there should be no cost for this.

Thanks. A separate company undertake the survey and apparently required for the grant but they refund after.

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Original poster

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 21:13

greenjojocat · 06/04/2023 20:42

I would stay well clear! We have an ASHP with limited insulation and our energy bills have been up to £580 over the winter. You'd be better to spend your money on insulation IMO

Yes it's electric heating which is more expensive so I don't know why it's being pushed. Do you mind sharing the instillation cost?

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Mum2jenny · 06/04/2023 21:15

We have just put one in and I’m not sure if it’s worth it at all. EPC has moved from an E to C, but the electricity costs are much more. I’m currently on the fence!

maddening · 06/04/2023 21:16

We looked into it, the calculations were done free but it worked out that we would have to pay at least 6k out of pocket to replace a perfectly functioning boiler and the electricity cost to run the heat pump was about what we would save in gas so would be no better off financially - plus 6k poorer to install it.

GasPanic · 06/04/2023 21:29

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 21:13

Yes it's electric heating which is more expensive so I don't know why it's being pushed. Do you mind sharing the instillation cost?

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Because it effectively extracts "free" energy from outside (the air) and moves it inside the house. So if you use x amount of electricity to run the pump, you actually get nx amount of heat energy into the house where n is a number which can range between about 2 and 4 depending on a lot of things, including the temperature difference between the inside of the house and outside.

Since electricity is about 3x the cost of mains gas, n has to be about 3 in order for the heat pump to put more energy into your house than mains gas for the same amount of money.

Some pumps achieve n=3 over the year but a lot don't.

A mains gas boiler is hard to beat with a heat pump. So the government are considering increasing the price of gas relative to electric/putting penalties onto mains gas users in order to "persuade" people to convert to heat pumps.

I think (and maybe other people have said) that heat pumps are ok in new build houses where the whole house (insulation and radiator size) is designed for them. Using them to replace mains gas boilers in older houses needs a lot more thought.

greenjojocat · 06/04/2023 21:32

It was installed by the previous owner of the house so I don't know the cost I'm afraid. I'd happily swap it for gas heating but we're not on the mains supply

Original poster

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 21:59

maddening · 06/04/2023 21:16

We looked into it, the calculations were done free but it worked out that we would have to pay at least 6k out of pocket to replace a perfectly functioning boiler and the electricity cost to run the heat pump was about what we would save in gas so would be no better off financially - plus 6k poorer to install it.

Yea this company must be over priced.

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maddening · 06/04/2023 22:06

Ours was a quote for an air source heat pump though - ground source would have been more?

roses2 · 06/04/2023 22:07

the government are considering increasing the price of gas relative to electric/putting penalties onto mains gas users in order to "persuade" people to convert to heat pumps.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11920815/How-100-year-gas-penalty-affect-YOU.html

The levy is insane and makes no sense. Its like Khan's ulez fee not taking into consideration the environmental impact of scrapping thousands of old functioning cars and getting new ones.

Typical short political short sightedness.

How £100-a-year gas 'penalty' will affect YOU

Ministers are set to change subsidy rules as part of their Net Zero strategy which will risk increasing gas bills by up to £100 a year, while electricity bills will reduce.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11920815/How-100-year-gas-penalty-affect-YOU.html

Sodd · 06/04/2023 22:08

It’s not a money saver. I wouldn’t bother

catchthedog · 06/04/2023 22:11

hi, only get a heat pump if you're in a super insulated, triple glazed type new build. or have spent a lot getting your current house almost airtight. they aren't suitable for older houses. (I install these on newbuilds as part of my job).
Heat pumps run at a low temperature and you will need oversized radiators / or underfloor heating to make them work for you. you can't just turn the heating on when it feels cold and expect the house to get warmer at any great speed. it can take hours and so they need to run frequently and in a properly where heat loss is minimal so that the air temperature always stays between 17-20 degrees.

Original poster

northeasrer · 06/04/2023 23:02

catchthedog · 06/04/2023 22:11

hi, only get a heat pump if you're in a super insulated, triple glazed type new build. or have spent a lot getting your current house almost airtight. they aren't suitable for older houses. (I install these on newbuilds as part of my job).
Heat pumps run at a low temperature and you will need oversized radiators / or underfloor heating to make them work for you. you can't just turn the heating on when it feels cold and expect the house to get warmer at any great speed. it can take hours and so they need to run frequently and in a properly where heat loss is minimal so that the air temperature always stays between 17-20 degrees.

Well that's what I was thinking....

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Crumpledstilstkin · 07/04/2023 00:13

If you're interested it's worth watching some of the videos by heat geeks to see how they work. Basically it's a case of getting energy to warm up water which then flows around the house to heat the inside air. A heat pump heats the water less so you need bigger radiators to transfer the same amount of energy and the amount of energy you need is driven by how well insulated your house is as that controls the amount of energy getting out. You can do rough calculations yourself to get your KW requirements if you need and see the cost of the pump required, it's about sixth form physics level calculations.

Original poster

northeasrer · 08/04/2023 22:40

Crumpledstilstkin · 07/04/2023 00:13

If you're interested it's worth watching some of the videos by heat geeks to see how they work. Basically it's a case of getting energy to warm up water which then flows around the house to heat the inside air. A heat pump heats the water less so you need bigger radiators to transfer the same amount of energy and the amount of energy you need is driven by how well insulated your house is as that controls the amount of energy getting out. You can do rough calculations yourself to get your KW requirements if you need and see the cost of the pump required, it's about sixth form physics level calculations.

Ok I'll look into it.

I don't understand how it gets heat from outside lol

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