AIBU to think the council will take action about demolished house?

[DemolishedAndCross]

There's a house around my way that's been completely demolished. There was nothing wrong with it - it was a completely sound house. The planning application gave permission for an extension - there was no permission given to demolish the existing house. A new and much larger house is now being built on the plot.

The council have opened an investigation, but there are no results showing on the council website as yet. I'm wondering what's going to happen. Has anyone had experience of this situation? Do councils take it seriously when someone demolishes a house without permission? What are the legal consequences going to be, if any? Do people get fines for doing this?

I'm a long-time member and a regular poster, but I've name changed for this. I have a personal interest, and it's outing.

I have heard of people ordered to rebuild it ....

Yes, but even then it can take many years for that to happen, with appeals, re-applications to planning and long periods of the owner just ignoring the council- see the case of the castle hidden by hay bales!

If this was my council, it's safe to say that ultimately nothing would be done because although planning law is fairly strict councils don't have the will to pursue offenders and don't gain anything by doing so.

It will depend on the detail and merits of the case. If they want to rebuild something which isn’t manifestly out of keeping the area or the original property, the council is likely to grant retrospective permission. If they want to build a big modern glass box with a roof terrace on a street of Victorian terraces they’ll likely be ordered to rebuilt the property to its original specifications and fined.

The findings will take time as will usually involve surveyors’ reports etc to establish and the owners will almost certainly appeal any negative outcome.

It's unlikely any action will be taken. In theory they could be prosecuted and ordered to tear down the new building and get planning permission for a new one. They could also be prosecuted under the Proceeds of Crime Act and be fined the amount of any increase in value to the property resulting from this.

In reality it's doubtful the authorities will care, sometimes they like to make an example of someone so it's always worth kicking up a stink in a case like this and hope that the people involved are the ones who get hauled through the courts.

Even if they do go all the way and prosecute, it will take years because the people involved will almost certainly appeal because they'll be in a position of having little to lose by doing so.

If this was my council, it's safe to say that ultimately nothing would be done because although planning law is fairly strict councils don't have the will to pursue offenders and don't gain anything by doing so

Thanks. This council did take action about another build, fairly recently. Someone built a house that had an unauthorised third storey, and the council made them remove the illegal part of the building. It's this experience that makes me think they may do something in this new case.

As above, it may well take years, but planners have very good long memories, so the strategy is usually to outlast.

Unless a local councillors nose has been pushed out of joint, or it's a local eyesore which could be a vote winner, councillors will sometimes pressure for any possible resolution (even if its ill advised) - lots of areas are in the pre election period now so there are strict rules about using local authorities to promote councillors activites.

are you in a conservation area or did the demolished house have any particular significance? councils have made people rebuild houses / pubs that have historical significance, but if it is just an ordinary house they are less likely to enforce it.

if you pitch the demolition as a story to your local newspaper, would they be interested? local pressure can definitely make a difference. and email your local councillors too - with local elections coming up, they should be responsive.

that is very different though, as the third illegal floor would have been a danger, whereas a house that is gone is not a danger

It will depend on the detail and merits of the case. If they want to rebuild something which isn’t manifestly out of keeping the area or the original property, the council is likely to grant retrospective permission

Thanks. Hmmm ... it's debatable. It is obviously going to be out of keeping with the other houses, as it will be very, very much larger - the new footprint is visible now, and it takes up most of the garden. It will be a street of older small houses with one new and very much bigger house. It won't be a modern house on a street of Victorian houses, though - it's a street of mid-century houses, so I expect the new one will have some sort of similarity.

are you in a conservation area or did the demolished house have any particular significance?

No, it was just a very ordinary little twentieth-century house, and not in a conservation area.

if you pitch the demolition as a story to your local newspaper, would they be interested? local pressure can definitely make a difference. and email your local councillors too

Thanks. Oddly enough, I'd thought of getting in touch with the local paper - I wondered if it was overkill, but now you have thought of that too, I will do! I have emailed the local councillors, but I have only just done so, so no response as yet.

There was a case I read about in the past few months or so that was similar to this. Well I'm sure I did and didn't dream it.

But they were ordered to rebuild the original house and complete the extension as planning permission was granted.

In theory it is possible for the owners to be ordered to rebuild what was there exactly as it was, and for a time frame to be applied to that, ie 'within x months/years' and various other conditions.

In reality that only tends to happen to listed buildings, where the demolition was done in order to put up something stupidly out of keeping with the area, and where the owners are already known to take the piss out of local planning regs.

The other swizz is to get planning permission on something for a renovate/rebuild/conversion.. and then let the building fall down and use the planning permission granted as a basis for 'well you said we could build X there... now X is not possible, you should let us build Y'..

Thats the situation going on up the road from me - they're NEVER building the fugly as fuck dutch barn conversion (that has no windows on three fucking sides and must remain a rusty tin shed externally)... but I can see them building a brick construction when the dutch barn falls over... which it will if the owner keeps having tractor & trailer related 'accidents' in it (the number of which has gone up from 0 in the last 30 years to 10 in 2 years...), hitting the support posts...

I’ve known someone who built a 2 storey extension far too close to next door’s wall (no room for access to brickwork) who was ordered to demolish and rebuild as it was, plus pay all neighbour’s costs - but it took a court case. From what I gather, the neighbour who built the extension was under the impression that a brown envelope or two would be sufficient to wave it through.

Someone else built a small extension over a manhole cover. Local council planning required them to demolish it.

I don't think there'll be any issue with demolishing the house. Unless it's listed in some way you're allowed to demolish a building you own.

If what they're building now doesn't have planning permission they'll have to apply for retrospective planning, so it depends if its something that would have got planning permission if they'd asked in advance. If so, it will be granted, if not they could be forced to demolish it. That does happen, probably unlikely if it's a domestic house in a street of domestic houses with no particular significance.

If they don't have pp for the new house the council can issue a stop notice and take enforcement action.

If they don't have pp for the new house the council can issue a stop notice and take enforcement action

They've got planning permission, but it's for an extension on the side of the now-demolished house.

Thanks for all the replies and insight so far!

But if it exceeds the footprint of previous property plus approved extension the pp cannot be valid. You can contact your local councillor to find out more about what action is being taken.

Surely only if the building was listed or in a conservation area?

A case near to me, involved a building with listed status. Developers fought for years in the courts to be able to change the building and were consistently denied. One night there was a fire in the building and it was completely destroyed . The investigation found the fire was started deliberately by the developer. They were ordered to put back exactly what was there, prior to beginning their prison sentence!

Has it happened? I've seen a couple of these stories, I often wonder how they make it happen. Presumably the developer would go bust?

They may be required to apply for retrospective permission.
I think if the changes are something they would grant permission for that's the more likely avenue than enforcement.

It wasn't The Copperfield in Catford was it?

Are you categorically sure that the planning permission for the new building did not include the demolition of the existing building?

For example, and admittedly not on the same scale, when we applied for our extension we included the demolition of some of the existing structure as we were partially demolishing two walls to then add on. It’s common around here for a dilapidated bungalow plot to have permission for splitting the plot into two and building a detached house on each section, and it will include the demolition of the old building as part of the same application.

Are you categorically sure that the planning permission for the new building did not include the demolition of the existing building?

Yes, absolutely sure. It's very clear on the planning permission documents.

Go to your parish/town council. The clerk and councillors can do things and request any retrospective applications to called in a committee decision rather than planning officer.