Any Social workers? How contact is decided?

UndertheCedartree · 2023-04-05T21:10:48+00:00

A family member of mine had her toddler daughter put into foster care as she was struggling with her mental health. She sees her twice a week for an hour and a half at a contact centre. Mum and daughter are struggling with not seeing each other much. I'm just trying to understand why it is set at such a short time. As far as I can see many/most of the issues are mitigated by mum being supervised. But of course, I'm no expert.

Brieandme · 05/04/2023 22:33

From a legal point of view, the purpose of contact is to support the relationship until further decisions are made. Two or three times a week is considered sufficient to do that. Seeing parents more doesn't usually make it any easier, as leaving a visit is upsetting in itself for a child who doesn't understand what's going on. The carer is also expected to fill the rest of the time with typical activities for a child that age, keep their routines etc. Usually in these circs a parent would be expected to use their time to tackle the problems that led to the situation, eg to get support, attend appointments etc.

Any issues may be mitigated by mum being supervised, but the purpose of supervised contact isn't to be a substitute safe parent while mum can't be, because that level of support isn't sustainable.

I do appreciate from the outside it sounds very limited though.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 05/04/2023 23:41

Brieandme · 05/04/2023 22:33

From a legal point of view, the purpose of contact is to support the relationship until further decisions are made. Two or three times a week is considered sufficient to do that. Seeing parents more doesn't usually make it any easier, as leaving a visit is upsetting in itself for a child who doesn't understand what's going on. The carer is also expected to fill the rest of the time with typical activities for a child that age, keep their routines etc. Usually in these circs a parent would be expected to use their time to tackle the problems that led to the situation, eg to get support, attend appointments etc.

Any issues may be mitigated by mum being supervised, but the purpose of supervised contact isn't to be a substitute safe parent while mum can't be, because that level of support isn't sustainable.

I do appreciate from the outside it sounds very limited though.

Thanks for explaining that. I understand transitions being difficult, just a shame the contact couldn't be longer as it means we can't do very much. Mum is on the waiting list for therapy but it could be a long wait. Decisions have already been made that the little girl will go to live with her dad so the contact is for the foreseeable future. There has been talk of it moving to the community but not sure what needs to happen for that to be allowed.

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neslop · 06/04/2023 00:05

I used to work as a Contact Supervisor, 1.5hrs twice a week seems on the short side for my experience. Quite often 3 times a week, and more like 2hrs each time. Maybe SW doesn't think mum's mental health is up to dealing with more at the moment? Or maybe as mundane as availability of rooms at contact centre. I would encourage mum to speak with SW and let her know that she would like longer contact if at all possible. If she can back this up with some examples of things she would like to do during contact that aren't currently possible due to the short time, I think that would help, as it shows she is thinking and planning and taking the time she spends with her child seriously. I wish her all the best.

Gogogo1 · 06/04/2023 00:20

mebtal Health alone isn’t a reason for a child to be removed form the care of their mother. Is there something else you weren’t told? This would probably make the low amount of contact make more sense.

the threshold for a child to be placed in foster care is imminent harm

Gogogo1 · 06/04/2023 00:22

neslop · 06/04/2023 00:05

I used to work as a Contact Supervisor, 1.5hrs twice a week seems on the short side for my experience. Quite often 3 times a week, and more like 2hrs each time. Maybe SW doesn't think mum's mental health is up to dealing with more at the moment? Or maybe as mundane as availability of rooms at contact centre. I would encourage mum to speak with SW and let her know that she would like longer contact if at all possible. If she can back this up with some examples of things she would like to do during contact that aren't currently possible due to the short time, I think that would help, as it shows she is thinking and planning and taking the time she spends with her child seriously. I wish her all the best.

The social worker alone doesn’t set the contact. The local authority makes a recommendation which is agreed by managers and legal department. The childrens guardian makes a recommendation and then the judge will make a final decision based on the issues. A social worker alone cannot change this

MargaretThursday · 06/04/2023 00:27

Not a social worker, but have some experience round contact sessions.
90 minutes is standard. We do occasionally get requests for a double session, but not often.
I'm not sure seeing more often is for the child's benefit. The children are often unsettled afterwards and ime that doesn't change if they see parents more often, if anything those who are seeing more often seem to be less settled.

MargaretThursday · 06/04/2023 00:29

Sorry, meant to add once to twice a week is standard too.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 12:50

neslop · 06/04/2023 00:05

I used to work as a Contact Supervisor, 1.5hrs twice a week seems on the short side for my experience. Quite often 3 times a week, and more like 2hrs each time. Maybe SW doesn't think mum's mental health is up to dealing with more at the moment? Or maybe as mundane as availability of rooms at contact centre. I would encourage mum to speak with SW and let her know that she would like longer contact if at all possible. If she can back this up with some examples of things she would like to do during contact that aren't currently possible due to the short time, I think that would help, as it shows she is thinking and planning and taking the time she spends with her child seriously. I wish her all the best.

Thank you, very much. That's very helpful.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 12:51

Gogogo1 · 06/04/2023 00:20

mebtal Health alone isn’t a reason for a child to be removed form the care of their mother. Is there something else you weren’t told? This would probably make the low amount of contact make more sense.

the threshold for a child to be placed in foster care is imminent harm

The little girl has developmental delay and her mum wasn't coping. She was already on a supervision order.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 12:52

Gogogo1 · 06/04/2023 00:22

The social worker alone doesn’t set the contact. The local authority makes a recommendation which is agreed by managers and legal department. The childrens guardian makes a recommendation and then the judge will make a final decision based on the issues. A social worker alone cannot change this

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Thank you for the information.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 12:55

The little girl's mum wants to take her to groups or soft play. But an hour and a half isn't long enough. There's not much around the contact centre so can only take her to a cafe or to the park.

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Brieandme · 06/04/2023 16:35

In the last few areas I've worked, contact that is supervised by local authority staff is only ever for one hour slots. I agree it is very short, and it is due to resources and that being the minimum the court would find reasonable. Two or three times a week for toddler upwards, daily for newborns/v young babies.
The flexibility comes if/when there's an agreement that someone in the family or friend network can supervise (assuming of course that a longer time works for the child)

Hopefully this will be a temporary arrangement, and there will be some talks about how things will look when the child is living with dad, if that is the plan for them.

MargaretThursday · 06/04/2023 20:31

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 12:55

The little girl's mum wants to take her to groups or soft play. But an hour and a half isn't long enough. There's not much around the contact centre so can only take her to a cafe or to the park.

She may not be able to anyway unless she's got permission to take her out of the contact centre.

If she is allowed to, then she may be able to discuss meeting at a group or soft play and an hour and a half is plenty for either of those at 2yo. She can raise it, but they will only let that if they feel it's safe and beneficial for the little one.

They may be unkeen as one of the things they do is watch how the parent interacts with the child, and I suspect in a group or soft play that's harder.
But she can ask.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 23:09

Brieandme · 06/04/2023 16:35

In the last few areas I've worked, contact that is supervised by local authority staff is only ever for one hour slots. I agree it is very short, and it is due to resources and that being the minimum the court would find reasonable. Two or three times a week for toddler upwards, daily for newborns/v young babies.
The flexibility comes if/when there's an agreement that someone in the family or friend network can supervise (assuming of course that a longer time works for the child)

Hopefully this will be a temporary arrangement, and there will be some talks about how things will look when the child is living with dad, if that is the plan for them.

There's already an agreement that I will supervise.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 23:12

MargaretThursday · 06/04/2023 20:31

She may not be able to anyway unless she's got permission to take her out of the contact centre.

If she is allowed to, then she may be able to discuss meeting at a group or soft play and an hour and a half is plenty for either of those at 2yo. She can raise it, but they will only let that if they feel it's safe and beneficial for the little one.

They may be unkeen as one of the things they do is watch how the parent interacts with the child, and I suspect in a group or soft play that's harder.
But she can ask.

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She already takes her out. Just not much to do in the local area and the contact centre staff wouldn't meet somewhere further afield. Hopefully soon we can move to community contact with me supervising.

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Zola1 · 06/04/2023 23:23

Is little one subject of an Interim Care Order? There should be a direction for contact if so. Your family member needs to speak to her solicitor as it will have been approved by a Judge.
Depending on contact quality and
I would do 3x a week for children while Care proceedings ongoing, maybe 4x a week for 0 to 6 months.
Issue with contact is it has to be beneficial to the child, it needs to be of reasonable/safe quality, it needs to be manageable for the supervisor to keep child safe, and parent needs to be able to cope with the artificial environment and pressure etc. In addition, Mum also needs time to do any courses, sort out her home, whatever the jobs are that need doing. Finally, the child needs the opportunity to settle into placement. They need to build relationships with their carers and be included on days out etc so they feel cared for. They also need time to do usual baby stuff, toddler groups etc.

If it's s20 we don't really have the power or authority to be dictating or supervising contact

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 06/04/2023 23:40

Zola1 · 06/04/2023 23:23

Is little one subject of an Interim Care Order? There should be a direction for contact if so. Your family member needs to speak to her solicitor as it will have been approved by a Judge.
Depending on contact quality and
I would do 3x a week for children while Care proceedings ongoing, maybe 4x a week for 0 to 6 months.
Issue with contact is it has to be beneficial to the child, it needs to be of reasonable/safe quality, it needs to be manageable for the supervisor to keep child safe, and parent needs to be able to cope with the artificial environment and pressure etc. In addition, Mum also needs time to do any courses, sort out her home, whatever the jobs are that need doing. Finally, the child needs the opportunity to settle into placement. They need to build relationships with their carers and be included on days out etc so they feel cared for. They also need time to do usual baby stuff, toddler groups etc.

If it's s20 we don't really have the power or authority to be dictating or supervising contact

Yes and she has contact 2x a week for 1.5 hours. I can't say mum really needs time for much. She just has endless hours to feel sad about losing her child. The time with the foster carer will soon be over. I'm hoping mum might be able to take the little girl to a group as there is a specialist one that would be really helpful but it's on the mornings the little girl sees her mum.

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