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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you really think it's the death of the high street?

163 replies

HannahDee · 04/04/2023 18:48

I've just heard that a local Barclays is closing and a much loved department store. Do you think death of the high street is really happening or are we making too much of it?

OP posts:
Needmorelego · 05/04/2023 00:53

@mariaantonia I find that when I am visiting family in the Midlands - it's literally like 5.30pm, shutters down, doors locked, town is CLOSED.
You'd think there was a curfew because the werewolves or zombies are coming out or something.

PogoThePunk · 05/04/2023 00:55

My local town centre is dying a death due to the council ramping the rent and rates up to an unaffordable amount for the smaller retailer.
We used to have a fabulous large market, indoors and outdoors, but the council ramped the rent up for those too, again making it unaffordable to the smaller retailer.
So they closed their doors.
Then the larger retailers such as Debenhams and John Lewis closed their doors and that was that.
Not to mention the price of parking.
I had cause to go into the town centre last week and the cheapest car park was £3.50 for a minimum of 30 minutes, rising £1 per hour after that!
Now the council are sat scratching their heads wondering how to attract businesses and customers.

Feuillemille23 · 05/04/2023 01:04

We moved to one of the north west ex mill towns beginning with B mentioned last summer for work and have been astonished at the bizarre way the council, er, run things compared to everywhere else we've lived. We were warned before we moved but we're still bewildered by the reality...my partner has suggested one of the reasons the council might actually not really want to be a city (rumour has it that this time round paperwork wasn't submitted on time) is because the accounts and goings on would be under a bit more scrutiny - it's a very plausible explanation. Meanwhile nearby Bury might be a bit rough and ready but it's certainly not dead....

Partyandbullshit · 05/04/2023 01:04

Free parking would help - but lots of cars in town centers isn’t good.

High Streets need to be full of places people go because they need to do things in person: doctor, dentist, optician, Post Office, parcel drop off/pick up, cafes, bars, restaurants, libraries, community center, law courts, council offices, dry cleaner, pharmacy, beautification, hairdresser, barber, mini-supermarket for last minute pint of milk etc. They’d be bustling hubs if they had these amenities and service providers. But parking and public transport just doesn’t allow for it. It’s such disjointed thinking. The space is there, it’s just not being used properly.

youhavenoshameonyourface · 05/04/2023 01:21

The ridiculous parking charges have wiped out parts of out town. There's no point paying 1.50 to park for 20 minutes to spend £1.20 on a sausage roll, or to nip into superdrug for a tube of toothpaste.

Supermarkets have free parking and sell everything. Town centres are expensive to park and sell less. Supermarkets killed town centres - but everyone knows that really.

Badbudgeter · 05/04/2023 07:09

Needmorelego · 05/04/2023 00:34

@thimblewomgee247 for swimming costumes I would try Sports Direct, JD Sports, Decathlon plus all the supermarkets.
@Badbudgeter wellies - places like Mountain Warehouse, Shoe Zone (they always have loads) and the supermarkets.

It was shoe zone I tried first! That store has now shut down. Then Asda/ Tesco I’d clearly missed the boat as they only had odd sizes left. Then I parked and went into town and still nada.

By the time I paid for petrol and the wasted time and stress of going to various shops with the dc it really put me off shopping in person with children. Ever since I buy lightweight wellies with liners from Amazon

QuintanaRoo · 05/04/2023 07:15

I agree that retail will be mainly online with some out of town stuff. But even the out of town stuff is being affected by shops closing and empty units.

town centres are becoming more like leisure areas, so restaurants and bars mainly. With some charity shops, vaping shops and tattoo shops scattered about. Sad really.

TodayInahurry · 05/04/2023 07:18

The small market town near me has lost loads of shops, including a small but useful M&S it is very run down, the council are trying hard but the shopping centre really struggles. Ten miles down the road we have a lovely large village with butcher, Hoxton bakery, greengrocer, cafes, etc. Really busy much more affluent customer base, large Waitrose up the road.

Florenz · 05/04/2023 07:21

They need to contract a lot of high streets/town centres since there isn't enough viable shops. Instead of leaving units empty just close a number of units at the edges and turn them into housing.

Lazarusshazarus · 05/04/2023 08:02

@Feuillemille23 presumably Bolton ?
Agreed that somehow Bury reinvented itself, not sure how, maybe redevelopment of the rock, who knows...
The council, whatever its political hue, currently Conservative, has had to deal with massive cuts to public spending and still is. Also it has to contend with high levels of deprivation (unlike Bury to a degree). Unfortunately it's not got the calibre of leaders required to deal with these issues and there have been some questionable business dealings..

GettingStuffed · 05/04/2023 08:10

Our local high street is full of barbers, hairdressers and charity shops. We used to have all the main banks but only Lloyds is left. There a few other shops and when I was in town 2 of the units gave new retailer coming soon.

Maray1967 · 05/04/2023 08:21

Rubygrapefruitwithchilli · 04/04/2023 19:19

I always think that where possible high streets could be adapted for elderly residents : so that they can have adapted housing, shops, hairdressers, launderettes, vets, dentists all in one easily accessible place. And then set out table and chairs in town squares for older folk to socialise in summer, just like in some other European countries.

That is an excellent plan. You need to be a local council planning officer.

gogohmm · 05/04/2023 08:30

@sixfoot as is Clifton. We are not too far, in a town and it's very busy on the high street, independent shops, cafes, restaurants and charity shops all thriving

GlassBunion · 05/04/2023 08:36

There are many empty units in our high street but it's hard to see how small retailers and independents can move in as long as the rents remain sky high by greedy landlords.

I'm not sure how high streets can evolve unless this issue is addressed.

Itstillgoeson · 05/04/2023 08:39

taxguru · 04/04/2023 19:11

It's been happening for a few decades. Out of town supermarkets moved out first, leaving towns without supermarkets. Then retail parks started taking out other chain stores like Currys, Halfords, WHS, Clarks, M&S etc. Now department stores are closing because they're an outdated model.

Smaller towns were hit first but now it's affecting the bigger towns and cities too. Even before covid, there were lots of smaller towns where the High Street was just charity shops, betting shops, Greggs, etc. and nothing else. People are only waking up to it because it's starting to hit the city centres which were previously relatively unscathed.

There's no going back. Retail is now "out of town" or online. Yes, maybe some independents will move into the High Street, but there won't be many of them as people will buy most of what they want on the internet or in retail parks, so basically, just "niche" shops, along with a sprinkling of "leisure", cafes/restaurants, etc.

High Streets and town centres will inevitably have to be re-purposed for housing (like they were before the chain stores took over the High Street), so whether that's by demolition or by conversion, it will be the future. The High Street of the last few decades will never come back.

Unfortunately, I think this is one of the best descriptions. Hopefully there can be regulations to ensure that these repurposed areas are useful, safe and accessible - nice lighting that makes them safe at night, play areas, greenery, essential services if only on a small scale. This has happened in some countries. Too many UK town centres in places that are not touristy or in the SE seem to have become grim (including the place I grew up).

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 05/04/2023 08:41

Staines has the right idea. There is a retail park with cinema etc. (plus shed loads of parking) but instead of being out of town it's directly behind the high street. A proper street market is held twice a week.
Car park is always heaving. Town centre is busy.
There has been a bit of contraction (e.g. Debenham closed) but it's actually holding up very well.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/04/2023 09:26

Not to mention the price of parking.
I had cause to go into the town centre last week and the cheapest car park was £3.50 for a minimum of 30 minutes, rising £1 per hour after that!

Mad, isn't it? And although the cost of the parking is the main issue, it's also the hassle of having to queue to buy a ticket, have the right money or app, go back to your car to display it etc. With free parking, it doesn't just cost you no money, but it also costs you much less time, when you can pull into a space, get out and go straight to grab whatever you want to buy.

About 15 miles away from us, there is an extremely busy massive shopping centre, with loads of car parking. People go there specially, obviously likely to be there for hours, if not all day. They could make an absolute fortune if they charged for parking, but they don't: all of the parking is totally free. Unlike most local councils, the real professionals who run the centre understand just how much offering free parking ultimately adds to the balance sheet overall.

thebellagio · 05/04/2023 10:18

It's a strange one. My local high street is decimated. There's literally 5 empty shops in between each open shop and parking is insanely expensive - we went to see a show at our local theatre recently, and it cost £7 to park for 3 hours.

Councils seem stuck in an 80s mindset of what a high street should look like.

When I've travelled to somewhere like a big shopping centre, it's vaguely price pointed, so John Lewis is with M&S, Joules, Fat Face, White Stuff (targeting the same demographic) and New Look is near Primark and River Island, so you feel like there's loads of shops to look in your budget. But in our town, each shop is about 15 min walk from one another, passing about 9 empty shops, so it feels much worse than it is.

Shops aren't helping themselves. They don't carry in many sizes - if you ask, you get told "you can order online" - well, there's no point in coming into your store is there?!

Our town also only open 9am-5pm Monday-Saturdays. So I cant nip in and get anything during the week, and now people are working from home, they've lost the lunchtime trade as well. On a weekend, a Saturday is taken up with DC activities, leaving only Sundays, which is when all the independent shops are shut. So even when I want to buy something, I literally can't.

Our town council are so against the out of town retail parks, that they put up huge barriers. It was well known that M&S wanted to look at moving into an old Toys R Us unit - a huge one, which could have been awesome for homewares and everything else. But our council literally bought the unit to prevent M&S from moving in and to keep them on the high street. M&S are now known to be closing stores - why the fuck would they choose to keep our store open when the council have literally prevented them from expanding?

boboshmobo · 05/04/2023 10:29

I think next are taking it over , having taken over a few stores and are basically a department store by proxy now !

This and their credit account has kept it afloat !

Pretty genius tbh

icelolly12 · 05/04/2023 10:34

With more people working from home and hybrid working it's much more convenient now to order online and get it delivered. Many market towns seem to be mainly coffee shops now and tend to be busy enough with mainly the retired keeping them going!

However, bigger town centres are now dire to the point of feeling unsafe and it being a miserable experience going in to one. I think Primark is keeping a lot of towns open, if they switch to online orders that would have a catastrophic impact.

University cities tend to have more going on and more vibrancy, but the design of towns does needs a rethink as others have mentioned many are turning into nothing more than 'hanging out' spots for immigrants and homeless/drug addicts.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 05/04/2023 10:42

I love my town centre but all the self service tills are ruining it for me

QueefQueen80s · 05/04/2023 10:44

TheGuv1982 · 04/04/2023 18:49

I think it’s going through a period of change. My hope is that more independent shops pop up as the large chains retract. My fear as that as retail units become empty, they’re sold off for flats.

That's whats happening in Leeds, no other big stores or restaurants want the empty Debenhams, house of fraser etc do they are becoming student flats. Better than being empty I guess.

RaraRachael · 05/04/2023 10:45

I was in our local big town (pop around 20 000) twice last week - Tuesday afternoon and Friday morning and it was like a complete ghost town. There's a smallish mall with just WH Smith, 2 phone shops and Argos in it. there used to be Monsoon, Dorothy Perkins, New Look, Superdrug etc. It's all so depressing and I can't see it getting any better.
There's an out of town retail park but a lot of people get the bus to the town and it doesn't go anywhere near the retail park.

Knullrufs · 05/04/2023 10:48

I think it's stratifying (is that the right word?) and has been for 20 years.

Eventually it'll be pound shops and Chanel, with not much in-between.

The shift to online has been gathering pace for 15 years or so now, that's where the bulk of trade is going to happen over the next few decades.

I think city centres and high streets need to rethink what they're for. Edinburgh (Princes Street in particular) is looking a bit sad of late. At least half the shops on Princes Street are shuttered up. Even Multrees Walk is looking gappy these days. (Although there's a Genesis showroom popping up soon which will help.) I wonder if in time, high streets will shift more to a mix of entertainment, living/accommodation and food/restaurants, with fewer shops in the mix.

Elphame · 05/04/2023 10:49

Yes I would say so. My local one is now full of coffee shops, places to have your nails done and cheap discounters selling overstock and short dated groceries.

If I head into the city, many shops are empty and those that are left have poor stock levels and Im frequently told if I want my size (10/12 so nothing out of the ordinary) I can order for pick up the next day. I’m not going to go to that inconvenience nor pay another parking charge.

Generally I come home empty handed and do order online. I very rarely bother now. Can’t remember the last time I went shopping in the city tbh.