You're not doing your kids any favours if you teach them to rebel against everything?

[Echobelly]

I have an acquaintance who is very non-conformist and seems very proud of taking her child's side against the school they attend with one of my kids because she basically believes rules are stupid. It does sound like the school has not been great with child (who is neurodiverse) but I also think that teaching a child that all rules are just stupid and can be ignored if you don't like them is likely to lead to bad outcomes for them?

By all means teach kids to question authority, but I think someone who has been set the example by a parent to just screw all the rules will have a hard time functioning in society. And it's good to have low tolerance for bullshit but I know someone who has so little tolerance for people's everyday small hypocracies that she can never hold on to a job because of that characteristic.

I agree. IME at least it often goes hand in hand with not being particularly smart. Teaching your kids that rules don't apply to them that are actually there for safety etc...

How old is the child and is she really honestly telling him to ignore ‘ALL’ rules like it’s ok to cross roads whenever you feel like it, hitting people is fine etc?

Maybe she needs back up with the school situation and finding something more suitable - learning to move on from bad situations is another life skill.

I’ve worked in schools and have seen very bright children, struggle with their education/exams because their parents have taught them they don’t need to obey authority or that all rules are stupid.

I agree; we teach teen DSD that some rules are annoying but you just have to follow them as that’s what jobs are like in the real world and some things are worth fighting for. Kids who are taught they don’t need to follow rules are going to get a shock when jobs fire them for it

Yes and no.

I do know what you mean - worked with someone like this and it was a bit exhausting as she’d create drama for something to push back against.

But sometimes it is appropriate to side with your child.

I have a relative like this. No kids yet but it's always going on about how their kid wouldn't do homework or religious ed or detention etc. This child would be a bloody nightmare to teach and to work with as an adult with that kind of thinking. I've always gone along with the idea that we all have to do shit we don't want to so just suck it up if there's no actual, real reason to avoid it. This relative is a bit of a know it all pain in the arse who thinks they knows everything and will criticise anything they don't use, understand our believe in.

We taught our DC to respectfully distrust authority. People in charge can’t always be trusted to be competent, reliable or have your best interests at heart. But that has to be balanced with following rules and laws for the greater good - just but not following with slavish, uncritical thinking.

Your acquaintance sounds like she has lost that balance. YANBU to be annoyed.

I agree. I am willing to bet that never following rules has led to problems making friends with peers? Kids don't always understand school rules but kids who can't follow the rules of play are going to struggle with friendships. The rules of play is stuff like taking turns, not cheating etc

Jeez how old is the child? I imagine this will really backfire in teenage years.

Believe me my teenager needs absolutely no encouragement when it comes to rebelling against rules she believes are stupid 🙄

I taught my lot to ask questions (respectfully) Do your own research and think for yourself.
Now adults I don't always agree with their choices or ideas, but I did teach them to decide things for themselves.
I had a couple of the all rules don't apply to my kid, rules are stupid kind of friends. What they really meant was I know best for me and my family and my kids will do everything I want/say
So eventually it'll come back and bite them in the arse when the kids go against what the parents think they should do/be.

Just wait until this child starts work . They are in for one hell of a shock .

It depends really. I mean look at all the site us adults in the uk put up with atm? I hope our kids do rebel more in future when they're the adults.

I agree OP. All the parents I know who take this approach have got by on good luck and handouts because they "refuse to bow to the man" but consequently they are now raising people who are completely unemployable and do not have the means to support them into adulthood. Good plan.

I have also seen a fair few young adults floundering under this kind of ideal, with no guidance and no limitations at all. Having a world that is a totally blank canvas can be overwhelming, especially at a time in life when you are already struggling to work out who you are and what you want to do next.

There's a big different between teaching your children that it is okay to question something if you don't think it is right or teaching your children to question everything all the time.

Totally agree, OP. I've met many of the 'I'm a rebel, me!' types over the years and they haven't been impressive.

When we join a group, whether it's a class of 30 other students or society in general, we have to accept some compromise of our personal freedom. It's a 'social contract' which works both ways - as balance of rights and responsibilities. Only an idiot would think they had the right to do exactly what they want, when they want, all the time in these contexts.

Also, children should perhaps be taught that 'questioning authority' is really an intellectual exercise first - or should be! In other words, if you strongly disagree with a rule/request/instruction then give it some thought, discuss it to test your ideas and present your question in a considered and civilised way (written argument, letter, sensible/respectful talk with a teacher for example). It DOESN'T mean rudeness, cheek, disrespect or refusal to co-operate in the moment - that's just lazy and cheap. If you seriously think, as a student, that you know a better way, then by all means explain it - but in a way which shows you've thought seriously and taken some trouble to do so. If you can't be bothered with any of this - you don't have a right to reject rules and instructions.

I can't believe the daft parents who think it's a positive thing that their children are constantly rebelling against the school. Surely, as adults, they understand that there may be all kinds of considerations that the school can't share with students (or other parents), and some decisions/rules will be based on this.

This is why Jeremy bloody Clarksons Diddly Squat farm show is so popular. Loads of people love this 'sod the rules', rebel against authority attitude. It's where the cool cats are at.

Maybe it depends on the child. One of my DC is an absolute rule-follower, like really strictly adheres to every rule. Sometimes I have to encourage her that rules can be bent a bit! She takes rules so seriously, sometimes I feel that doesn't help her.

It'll be interesting to see how she reacts when the child isn't following her rules.

My poor niece has had this upbringing. Primary school teachers were undermined, it created distrust between the kid and all authority figures.
Sadly we don't have trust funds in the family nor is she an easy character so the chances of her doing a Jane Austin, marrying well, are slim.
What we're left with now is a miserable 17year old with two GCSEs, started doing a law a- level to sue the local education authority and now out of school having failed at that.
She's a really sad kid and it wasn't her fault but she's growing into an unpleasant adult. We loath spending time with her, a lot of damage has been done and I don't think she'll be able to unpick that.

Totally agree.

I know someone who is constantly taking their kids on protests - even random ones like standing outside the Happy Egg company with signs about ‘there are no happy eggs’ (they are vegan). They wear whatever they pick meaning even at age 7 they wear odd shoes. They are allowed to climb up the slide at the park to ‘explore their freedom’. They are encouraged to chastise meat eating people.

I can honestly say they’re two of the most badly behaved unpleasant little brats I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. Always have a comeback, always an answer for everything f. So, so rude and it’s very sad as I can’t imagine how they will cope as adults. The parents have ‘unschooled’ them because they were a PITA in school and they just seem to fanny about in woods all day

It's ok to teach your kids to rebel and question things but also teach them to pick their battles and when they do think carefully how they are going to go about it instead of charging in all guns blazing .

So OP, are there no rules in your aquaintances house? The kids can draw on the walls, piss in the garden, eat crisps for dinner and play their xboxes till 5am?

It really depends what rules you mean. My employer doesn’t expect me to bleed everywhere because they want to lock the toilets all day apart from a 30 minute crush at lunchtime. Neither do I have to work an hour late if I forget my pen. Blindly following because those are the ‘rules’ isn’t a good precedence, neither is ignoring sensible rules.
if the child is ND and the school are not being great that child absolutely needs someone to advocate for them!

I think teaching your children to be think critically and not adhere to particular ideology is very useful. Rebelling for rebellings sake is just stupid.

I’ve come across a few families like this working in a secondary school. Some get it absolutely bang on. The difference being they don’t just say “don’t accept the rules” they teach them about critical thinking, how to put a reasoned argument across without being rude or aggressive. Ive had many respectful conversations with students who question authority/rules etc. They teach their children to listen but I think the main thing is the children who succeed are the ones who understand that their wants as an individual don’t trump everyone else. An example recently is a child who doesn’t like ICT, doesn’t want to opt for it as a GCSE so therefore feels they can disrupt the lessons and impact the learning of all of the other students. What they and their parents can’t understand is that they can’t just opt out and be taught extra maths and english which is “more useful”. And if you try and explain that all students must follow the curriculum, there is no one a available to tech them, there answer is that it’s schools problem not theirs. I’m afraid in my pastoral role I have little time or patience for this kind of self entitled behaviour, it takes precious time assy from kids in crisis and they don’t get much sympathy.

i do however sometimes regret bringing my own kids up to believe life isn’t fair so suck it up buttercup. I worry that they won’t ask those questions and want more. I think a good balance between the two is ideal.

in short I think it’s ok to believe in this way of thinking but you have to put the work in to teach them the right way to go about it, they won’t learn this on their own.

there's a bluey episode, Library, where the cousin, muffin, her dad goes through a red light and he says 'it's OK I'm special' and she asks if she's special. Of course she is! so she gets her own way and ruins blues house with mud and ruins the children's game. But ots OK she's special.... basically she's a little shit and nobody likes her or her dad's behaviour. put it on when they come round. Library.