to be sad dd still isn't in a graduate job 5 years later?

[tinyelephantlargeant]

Dd is 27 and did her degree in biology, with a placement year in a chemistry based laboratory.

She has been working in retail ever since. She has been looking and applying, but says nothing much comes up and when it does there is no luck.

I'm aware she is a grown adult and can do what she wants, but me and her dad financially supported her the whole of university and we are a bit sad that she is still just in retail, it's not as if she is overjoyed with it either.

Personally I'd apply for a role in a bank, the NHS or the civil service and I'd try to work my way up.

Alternatively she could look at getting a tech masters degree and the applying for something in that field. Aston uni do highly rated conversion courses.

Also big four accounting firms are desperate for graduates starting in audit. She could specialise in science and tech industries so would be close to her areas of interest. Good pay structures and funded training.

Is she happy though?

If she's had 8 interviews in 5 years it's her applications that are the problem.

She needs to think outside the box a bit, I think. Some very good suggestions here. My DC who describes herself as socially awkward (she isn't really, was just a bit shy) did benefit greatly from working part-time in retail while studying.

I think she should consider a further qualification, just to 'freshen up' that side of things. Being flexible on location is a big one too. Eldest wanted to enter a profession where permanent, FT grad posts are hard to get in our location. So they moved away, did professional qual, worked there for a couple of years and then got to be where they wanted to.

2nd has graduated in an even more difficult specialism but is very determined and just needs a little bit of luck. Will be surprised if it doesn't show up, but I really understand @tinyelephantlargeant. It's less than a year since mine graduated and I can see how disheartening it is.

Just coming on to second SRG - I know at least one science graduate who got a foot in the door with a shortish contract via SRG. Also had some contact via LinkedIn as graduate had kept entry up to date with details of projects done during degree and things like that. Good luck to your DD!

We’re struggling to hire lab analysts in the NW. I know both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are too.
IF she does want to do lab work, and that’s a big if, I think she needs to do it now. Too much of a gap looks like she’s just not bothered/doesn’t really want to do it.
If she gets some kind of lab job, any kind really, then her foot’s in the door and she can move onto other roles or industries after a couple of years.

8 interviews in 5 years isn’t much at all. How many jobs has she actually applied for?

Civil service op. DS has a chemistry degree but a 2:2. He farted about for a few years then applied to the civil service two years ago. First job with them paid 34k. Two years later he now earns 54k God knows how, although some of that is an antisocial hours allowance. He's already looking for his next promotion. It's HMRC. Tbf he says a lot of them are not people people.

How do you know that? She could have applied for 100 roles for all you know. I would suggest that she’s not applying for enough if she’s only had 8 interviews in 5 years.

I'm wondering if she really knows what she wants to do? The grad market gets more and more competitive, and you've got to work your ass off to get a decent grad job. I applied for grad schemes and was lucky to get one. Not sure what I would have done otherwise. Probably stayed in part time retail and looked for other jobs but abandoned the grad scheme idea. But after this much time I wonder if she isn't too sure what she wants to do and therefore can't evidence the relevant experience she's had (some of which will likely need to be recent, but it could be volunteering) or can't sell herself really well at interview because her heart isn't in it?

I wonder what she wants long term? She could climb the ladder in retail if she likes it and/or is comfortable in that sector if she needs a higher income to do the things she likes.

She should still be able to access her uni careers service - sounds like she might benefit from some professional help with identifying options, perfecting applications and interviewing.

I see so many dreadful applications from grads - such a shame they don't use the careers service to review applications and learn how to do them properly

Lots graduates I know are taking lower paid roles to get experience and get a foot in the door of chosen sector if they can't get graduate positions.
She could look at nhs laboratories.

Get her to look at CRA roles (IQVIA, Syneos, ICON, Parexel). The world is absolutely desperate for them, and someone with a biology degree is likely to be considered. That would be a foot in the door to clinical research which is a good and interesting career.

If she cares, that is!

To get into Pathology she will need hospital laboratory experience. There are very few posts, and so competition is tough. As someone said above the route tends to be taking a Lab Assistant role in a hospital path lab to gain the experience, and then applying for the scientist role. Most applicants do this and so unfortunately she is unlikely to be shortlisted for a Scientist role in a path lab if she has no hospital lab experience.

Also criteria is strict. If her degree is ‘Biology’ and not an IBMS accredited Biomedical Science degree she would need to take additional modules, or even a different course. Once in post there is also a registration portfolio to complete to gain HCPC accreditation- a lot of those currently working as lab assistants will have completed this already and so as before, competition is very, very tough!

If she is serious about this careerI recommend the first step is to direct her to the IBMS website to see if her course is accredited and identify any modules she may need to take.

https://www.ibms.org/resources/documents/list-of-ibms-accredited-universities-offering-top-up-modules/?preview=true

’Pathology’ is also large department and each hospital can be different in that not all hospitals provide the same services, they may send samples to another hospital lab. Definitely ensure when applying for assistant roles to make sure the application is tailored to the department. E.g whether Microbiology, Blood Transfusion, Blood Science, Haematology or Cellular Pathology/ Histopathology.

What about a company like Key Forensics or Cellmark? They run Forensic Laboratories and process crime scene stains/exhibits and have labs up and down the country. Many Police Forces and Defence Solicitors out source to them?

cezanneondemand.intervieweb.it/keyforensicservices/en/career

www.cellmark.co.uk/careers/

Maybe she needs to re-explore an ASD diagnosis, if she is autistic she will have to work that much harder to appear warm & approachable & honestly the work for her to do that might be too much for her mental health and could still be unsuccessful. A bit like someone working on being less deaf/blind.

My DD is autistic and very much wants to be social but it takes a lot out of her.

Others have had good ideas about routes into lab work.

Oh, and as for people skills - tbh that’s not one of my priorities when looking for new grad lab analysts. As long as they don’t come across as overly argumentative or similar - my primary concern is that they can do the practical work, have a decent standard of written English for writing it up, are capable of following procedures and have an acceptable amount of motivation/enthusiasm (i.e. they’re not lazy).
As for being different - every lab I’ve ever worked in has had a relatively high proportion of neurodiverse people (myself included) so I wouldn’t really think anything of that.

I'd go this route too. Get into a generic healthcare admin post - retail has a lot of transferable skills - and work the career path out via experience

If she is interested in pathology and forensics she could look at CSI roles. You don’t need to be a graduate but it helps as most of the competition have degrees. There are downsides as there are in any job but there is a lot of variety and it’s better than being stuck in a lab doing the same thing all day. I know several people who have moved from forensic labs to become CSIs and from what I have heard the CSI roles pay better.

Are you in a position to underwrite her financially or offer a financial safety net?When DC graduated, he initially took an interesting although low paid intern role, I think he started on 16K. We stood guarantor for rent although he could have lived at home, however, he managed independently, he had the shoebox room in his flat share with higher paid friends. When I was young I knew I had to stand on my own two feet and sadly I think it makes you risk averse.

A few people have suggested teaching, but honestly if she doesn't have strong interpersonal skills, then teaching is not a good idea. It's not just a default job for those who fail to get grad jobs. She'd probably get a place on a PGCE, but that doesn't mean it would be a sustainable career long term.

Others have given great advice about possible options e.g. within the NHS. The thing I would say is that having done a biology degree, but a chemistry placement, she may look unfocused/uncommitted to potential employers- and her theoretical knowledge and skillset may not match very well.

I also agree with those who say the more years you spend out of science, the harder it is to get back in- in some areas technology etc can move on quickly.

I think you also do need to be in the right area of the country for some jobs.

It's obviously more debt and expense on top of her degree, but I do think a masters (ideally in what she actually wants to do) would help. Is it an option for her to do this part time whilst working?

I have ADHD, diagnosed at 45 - and you literally have hit the nail on the head and described exactly how I feel about my life. I’ve never quite made it. Always had great things said about me, but never ever been promoted, always not quite reached where I wanted to be - and I do feel like a failure. That’s exactly how I feel, and it breaks my heart

Try the pharma industry. There’s a wide variety of roles with good career potential and good wages. Getting in the door is probably the hardest part but once in and you get a better idea of what each function does, you can move around or move to another company.

She needs to be looking at non-graduate roles. She’s been out of university too long for a graduate role. Admin roles, temp roles. My first job was a 3 month temp contract, my dad didn’t really see it as a real job but I was there for 18 months and had a lot of responsibility (far more than I was paid for) by the time I left. I took another two contract roles after that and was on temporary or fixed term contracts for about 2.5 years.

I would look at admin roles in civil service or NHS, something where she can make sideways moves as well as progress. If she seeks an ASD diagnosis in adulthood, these employers should both be in positions to provide accommodations for her. I would also look into career coaching for her, you can get ones that specialise in public sector and they can assist throughout the application process and interview process. I used a career coach to make the jump from my last job to this one and it was helpful to see how he reframed skills that I already had as the skills listed on applications.