Is this gaslighting?

[Allinadayswork80]

Please help me. I’m in a loving relationship of 4 1/2 yrs. I have an 11yr DD and we have a 2yr old DD together. It’s a long one sorry!

Every so often we have massive rows and he turns into a very angry unpleasant person. He will instigate/pursue arguments in front of our DD’s which upsets them, despite me telling him to stop and not do it in front of them. He’ll happily do it in public too.
He’s not physically abusive whatsoever but I feel he maybe gaslights me. It often stems around him doing something wrong but instead of owning up/accepting and apologising he becomes angry and defensive and tells me I’m “always” going on at him and picking at him. From my perspective it feels like he thinks he can do/say things that might upset me or my DD but doesn’t expect it to be pointed out.

Example today: I worked this morning, was very busy and got home around 1:30-1:45pm feeling shattered and headachey (also because my DD had a friend for a sleepover and they were up v. late and then our LO woke v. early). I managed to get LO back down before I left for work so he could sleep in longer. When I get home, the parents of the friend had arrived to collect her and they were all sitting chatting and having a cuppa. I joined them (but no cuppa made for me). LO was a bit clingy and angsty so I pointed out it was probably because she’s gone past her nap time (usually down for 1pm after lunch at 12pm). I tried to put her down but she had a tantrum and wouldn’t. After the parents left (3ish) my partner started making me and him bacon rolls, I asked if LO had had any lunch. No. Neither had my eldest. I was obviously a bit peeved and he made the excuse that the parents had turned up so he couldn’t have done it. I disagreed, said he should’ve just said “I just need to make LO some lunch” and chatted whilst doing so. He’s terrible at keeping to routines anyway and always needs prompting/reminding. So I then fed LO and asked him to sort something for my eldest. He wasn’t happy but did so.

This eve, LO became predictably tantrumy and difficult, he asks why so I say “it’s probably because she hasn’t had a nap” he replies “well you tried and she wouldn’t go down” I reply “probably because she was hungry as she hadn’t eaten, which I didn’t know at the time”. He blows up, in front of the girls, raised voice, saying nastily “why did you have to bring it up again, you’re always having a go at me, picking at me” etc etc. and obviously I defend myself saying I’m not having a go - just pointing out why LO is in a mood. He was just horrible.

Also earlier on, my DD brought up that he had deleted lots of things from the tv that me and her had recorded for ourselves but not watched yet (he records TONS of stuff for himself, at least 75% was his but we had reached our limit on recorded stuff). Instead of apologising, he gets defensive and said he didn’t know we hadn’t watched it blah blah and we can still probably find it to watch again. We can’t. I said can’t you just say sorry? He does. But then in this evening’s row, he brings that up aswell as part of the “you’re always having a go” line.

So this is what he does - makes a mistake, doesn’t own it and just apologise instead has a go at me for pointing it out. I honestly don’t pick at him all the time, he just hates if he fucks up and expects it not to be pointed out. How is that fair??

I’ve said he’s gaslighting me - fucking up, not owning it, then turns it back on me that I’m having a go. It’s all the time.

AIBU? Should I not point out when he doesn’t keep to routines, or doesn’t pick his dirty clothes off the floor and put them in the basket, or doesn’t put the clean, dried, folded clothes away etc.? I’m expected to just put up and shut up? I work too, part time and him full time but never weekends, so I do the lion’s share of childcare, shopping, cooking, housework in the week AND at weekends. So yes, I do point out when he makes my life harder by not helping or doing his bit. But surly he can at least do the basics when I’m working? Again, that’s “picking on him”.

Thanks if you’ve reached this far! I’m just sitting here pissed off and mulling it all over!

And why does he ‘have the main say’ over TV watching? It just makes me sick that people train their daughters to cringe in the corner and accept their place as second class citizens to the big man of the house who is obviously the most important person. If you want to live like that it’s your choice but it is so unfair for your poor daughters.

I mean, for fucks sake.

He didn't feed his own small toddler yet it's OK because he's a man.

If it was the other way round, people on here would be screaming neglect, unfit mother, lazy, etc etc. But oh no, the poor guy is a man, so cannot be expected to go through the effort of making his own toddler a sandwich.

Don't even get me started on the term daddy day care. God forbid a man looks after his own child as an equal to the woman- when he does it we all must bow down to how amazing he is taking 'care' of his own kid.

Sorry to derail though OP. No it's not gas lighting but yes he's a dick. I'd be the same as you and no I don't think you need to cut him any slack. Feeding his own child is basic parenting. I can't imagine my husband forgetting to feed my similar aged toddler.

That’s not gaslighting. Not even close. If he were gaslighting you, for a start you wouldn’t even know. It’s done so subtly and so slowly over time that you wouldn’t even be here complaining about hm because everything would seem “normal”. Then you would start to think that you were the one h the wrong because of how manipulative he was. Gaslighting is an extreme form of mental torture and manipulation, and it annoys me that the terms is thrown around so liberally on MN.

He does sound very immature. And not a nice person. But not admitting your faults, lying to cover up your errors, feeding yourself but not the baby because you’re “too busy” are a million miles from gaslighting.

The neverending dichotomy of Mumsnet: men are awful and terrible and LTB at the drop of a hat, and yet on threads like this women will still inexplicably leap to defend the incompetencies of men because "oh well they're just men what do you expect".

Make it make sense.

You don’t sound happy. How does your older daughter feel living with a man like that? Does she see her father and get a break from your partner sometimes? You don’t deserve to be treated like that.

There's no excuse for that anger. It is psychological and emotional abuse. Tell him it has to stop or you'll leave him. See how he responds to that ultimatum. You can also suggest couple's counselling. Good luck.

Amen. I really do despair. And the endless threads from poor OPs like this asking if THEY'RE the ones BU by bringing it up with the man, because they've been fed the narrative (mostly on here) that men can't be held accountable for 'mum stuff' like, y'know, ensuring their own kid doesn't go hungry.

But if a man ever farts in front of his wife it's all, LTB! Now!

He’s a selfish twat but he’s not gaslighting. Gaslighting is something different altogether.

He’s an immature lazy baby who can’t take responsibility for his actions.

I worked for someone like this for a long time, absolutely lovely bloke 99% of the time, but if he fucked up and I dared to voice my annoyance about it, or even look annoyed(!) (almost always when his fuck up impacted me) he would lose his mind over it and blow up disproportionately. It’s weird because he was usually so calm and patient but in this specific scenario he’d be a different person! It’s almost like because he KNEW he was wrong he just absolutely HATED to be called out on it (or looked at ‘funny’ apparently!). Ranting back about the original fuck up, just escalated things, so I just started walking out midway through his rant, I didn’t give a shit what time of day it was, even if I’d been there 10 minutes, I’d say ‘I tell you what, I’ll see you tomorrow when you’ve calmed down’ and I’d go home and leave him to stew on it.

he always apologised the next day, normally to be met with an annoyed ‘yeah, whatever’. It used to boil my piss to be honest, but I found that the most effective way of dealing with it.

He’s not gaslighting you, but he’s wearing you down, by doing something bad then playing the victim when you moan about it, they’re essentially making it so a. You don’t feel like you can get annoyed about anything that happens going forward, (justified or not), and b. you have to apologise to them for moaning about it in the first place.

I’d say fuck all that placating nonsense, just try and find an effective way of dealing with it going forward if you can. it’s his problem not yours.

Thank you - yes I can see from everyone’s replies that it’s not gaslighting. It sounds like the DARVO that the first poster said.
And that’s what I said to him “it’s basic parenting” but some of the other posters seem to think I should just “stop criticising him” but how is that fair? After a slightly less heated conversation last night he admitted that I’m not picking on him ALL the time and when I do it’s more often than not justified! He struggles to be called out on things he has or hasn’t done then later reflects and apologises. I’m just sick of the cycle of him doing stuff, me eventually commenting on it, him reacting defensively, huge row in front of the kids and then him calming down and apologising.

So similar! That’s exactly how it is with my partner. Most of the time he’s funny, lovely, kind and supportive and he does work very hard. In the past I have done what you do and just walk out get in the car and drive off somewhere to cool down and let him reflect. The problem is the kids are left crying and unhappy - more so my eldest, who is left behind worrying about her mummy and I then feel terrible.
You’re absolutely right in the two scenarios you mentioned and I HATE being called a nag, it’s unjustified considering what I generally gloss over most of the time as it’s easier just to get on with it rather than have the explosive row.

You nailed it!

He sounds awful, always flying off the handle like that. But it does sound like you are always finding fault and actually you mentioning the lunch again was doing exactly what he said, bringing things up again to have a go at him. I definitely think you caused that argument in the evening, even though he took it too far.

It sounds EXHAUSTING. Maybe make him an offer. If he doesn’t want you to point out how imbalanced and unfair it is that you come home from work to a messy house and hungry children, then you suggest every time you do that, then the next time the house is messy on a day he works you leave it and leave dinner and walk out when he gets home saying my turn, tag! to disappear for a few hours leaving him a messy dump and hungry children to sort.
but I don’t know- if he called me a nag I’d have seen apocalypse red and told him nag is only ever used when men have been repeatedly consistently fucking useless, just like him .

He’s a dick; would you be happy if your daughter had such an unhelpful partner when she’s older? Not a great example for her either

Thanks - it is!
That’s exactly it - he generally comes home to a clean tidy home, happy fed kids and a cooked meal. But when I’m working I don’t get the same courtesy and everything with the kids slides. My DD comes up to me and says she’s hungry, LO is running around in pj’s when she should be fed and napping and the kitchen is a mess. I only work 1:4 weekends and it’s the same every time. Just like if he happens to have a day off work midweek, it’s his ‘day off’ and sits with his feet up - I’ve said before “so where’s MY day off? I’m doing the same week days and weekends. But according to some other posters, I shouldn’t be “nagging” him! And as soon as he says I’m nagging I see red!