To let my baby have supervised naps on her tummy?

[babypanther]

I just want to preface by saying that I follow safe sleep advice and always put my baby down to sleep on her back. However she seems much more settled and sleeps more soundly when I’m holding her against my chest and seems a lot more comfortable on her tummy (she also has quite bad wind). Would it be OK for her to nap on her tummy if I’m supervising her? Eg. just putting her down when I need to quick chores such as washing her bottles etc, not for prolonged periods of time? I would never leave her unsupervised and she would always be within my sight.

At five weeks old, are you swaddling her? This was what helped both of mine settle in the first few months. I used the gro bags where you can put their arms in. Feed until very sleepy, swaddle, rock to sleep and the transfer to cot/Moses basket is way easier because they don't startle.

You have to stop swaddling around 4 months or when they're showing signs of rolling, as it's really unsafe for a swaddled baby to be on its stomach. But then when they do learn to roll, as PP say it is fine to let them sleep on their stomachs if they get there themselves.

It's still 6 months on Lullaby Trust. I've not heard about it being 8 months. I work on nicu and we advise parents to follow lullaby trust advice.

How strange! We were definitely told it was increased to 8. She’s almost there anyway so doesn’t make much difference now.

No it isn't. The back to sleep campaign reduced sudden infant death from around 2500 a year about 350 a year. It is THE most important piece of sleep advice for babies who can't roll over. There is a risk of them suffocating on their stomachs, theory that they go into a deeper sleep and therefore forget to stop beathing and a much higher risk of them overheating. It is utterly wrong to say any different. Babies should not sleep on a parents chest for similar reasons. The death of a baby sleeping in it's own bed in a cool room on it's back is incredibly rare. The death of babies who sleep on their front or on a parent's chest isn't.

I have worked in this area for over 15 years and review child deaths. This is a fact.

Yes, but those instances do not - I bet - differentiate between a baby being closely monitoring (e.g. with a parent sitting right next to them) and not being closely supervised. I would wager that the former would be extremely rare. The stomach sleeping in itself is not what cuases the SIDS, it's (mainly) the carbon dioxide build up from rebreathing their own breath or obstructions. Both those things can be avoided by a parent closely monitoring the nap to avoid the baby's face being in a position where either of those things happen and keeping a close eye or ear on its breathing. Obviously this is not done when you are rushing around doing the hoovering, but if you are sitting right by them, being attentive to their position (and being aware of those things as well as overheating) and listening to their breathing the risk really is minimal. If you are listening to your baby's breath and they forget to breathe due to deep sleep you can wake them up.

It's not, oh the baby slept on its tummy, that's it then, don't even bother with the ambulance.

You cannot see or hear if a baby is breathing in exhaled air. What do you think looks or sounds different about exhaled air?

Both those things can be avoided by a parent closely monitoring the nap to avoid the baby's face being in a position where either of those things happen and keeping a close eye or ear on its breathing.

That is patently untrue. You cannot closely monitor to see if a baby is breathing in low oxygen/high carbon dioxide air. Unless you’re suggesting you keep limewater and a Bunsen burner to hand. If the baby stops breathing then immense damage is done and it may well be too late. Your advice is ignorant and dangerous.

But you can see if your baby is in a position where there is not free airflow in front of their nose and mouth.

These things can also happen on your chest or in a sling, but it's considered ok because you are so close to them you can feel/ see/ hear if things aren't right immediately.

Look, I always followed the back advice. But I think it's a mistake to just bang the old "on their back in a bare cot in 18 degrees or YOUR BABY WILL DEFINITELY DIE" line to people who are desperate for their babies to get some sleep. Because what you will get is people doing it anyway, and unsafely. Rather then education people on what the real issues and risks are so then can hopefully find a way to get their baby some sleep addressing the actual risks (the face positioning, the breahting, the overheating) rather than the simplified version (stomach sleeping).

It's like the cosleeping advice. I was if you cosleep you will definitely roll on your baby and kill it. Now at least lullaby trust and offering advice on safe cosleeping. There is still increased risk, but I bet you anything that cosleeping infant deaths will go down as a result. Because people who do it because they really want to or really feel they have no choice, will at least put in place the measures to do so safely.

People here are advising a sling. Where you have exactly the same risk of rebreathing due to face positioning. Can you tell me why that is different then?

Those who say "in my time babies were on their tummies" ... please read the stats before making silly comments.

OP I did it with two of my three kids but wouldn't recommend it. They are fine and nothing happened but it is not something that anyone should ever tell you "it's fine go for it". If you feel that she's appropriately supervised then make your own decision. You need to make an informed decision on your own / with the dad.

I wasn't ready to deal with the consequences but I took a risk/benefit view as I was suffering with intense baby blues and really really tired. The chances that something bad happens are slim but you need to make that decision alone.

I ended up buying a breathing monitor which I know are controversial but that gave me a bit of peace of mind.

Good luck

You can see if your baby is in a position where there is not free airflow in front of their nose and mouth

No, you can’t. If a baby is on their front at that age then they can’t have the neck strength to not have their face against the surface. Ergo, there can’t be free airflow.

I always followed the back advice. But I think it's a mistake to just bang the old "on their back in a bare cot in 18 degrees or YOUR BABY WILL DEFINITELY DIE" line

Good job no one said that then, eh?

Except they pretty much do. That's always the subtext. My orginal reply was to someone pretty much saying don't even bother calling the ambulance if you let them do it as it'll be too late. Don't know if that was you.

Still also wondering how it's different to a baby asleep in a sling. Which everyone recommends and is generally considered safe...

We all make different risk assessments and only you know what your tolerance for risk is.

For me, with a 5 week old, it would be a no. They are so delicate at that age and honestly those early weeks and months fly past. You aren't going to look back in 6 months time and say 'I wish I'd left my baby more'.

The likelihood of SIDS happening is low, but the risk is the most serious one.

It’s not “pretty much” whatever you imagine though. People said actual words with actual meaning. If they meant what you’re saying then that’s what they would’ve said. Stop inventing things because your argument doesn’t hold up against the reality of what was said.

I never recommended a sling so don’t get pissy with me for not answering your questions directed at me for something I never said. I don’t owe you a defence of other people’s comments just because you stamp your feet.

My daughter finds it easier to get to sleep on her side- I think that’s because it helps with wind too. I’ve been side-lying feeding her to sleep in our bed. Once she’s asleep I roll her onto her back, wait a couple more minutes then transfer her to the cot on her back. Could that technique work for you?

When mine were small it was recommended to sleep on their front or side

I think it's fine

Yep, same.

Me too. But the evidence based advice has changed.

Agreed, and I didn’t let my DGC sleep on their front when tiny.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I was a bit surprised to see people saying that there’s a risk in slings too from babies breathing in carbon dioxide - I thought slings were meant to be safe as long as you’re following the TICKS guidance?

When it goes from 2500 deaths a year to about 350 within a couple f years of the advice changing it kind of suggests it’s not that fine