Comparing being a dancer to being trans...

[NotTonightDeidre]

AIBU to think that this is an utter load of nonsense?!

Not just the comparison but the notion that dance is a form of body modification too.

Yeah that’s bloody crazy.

As a child it doesn’t really do much. I mean I’ve seen kids do perfect cartwheels and they have never stepped foot in a gym or ballet studio.

It only starts to change the body when they start to get really serious about it. Then it’s managed with hard work, a lot of training and diet

I did gymnastics as a young kid. It did make a difference to my body in as much as I can still do the splits.

I don't really see how that's like cutting my dick off

I had a reply all planned, but @OneTC said it so much better, with less words

I thought gymnastics, if done at a very serious competitive level, can prevent menstruation in young girls and do permanent damage to their bodies? There were a couple of documentaries about this a few years ago, young women speaking out about the inhumane treatment that was brushed off as totally normal if you wanted to show you were committed to being a gymnast?

Can ballet do the same at a similar level? I don't know.

They're very similar in terms of intensity and the stresses you put on your body so it would seem likely

I did Ballet fairly seriously into my twenties, and my feet are a bit of a mess, but that's about it. I was later starting periods, but started age 16 and have 2 children. Many dancers at professional level do.

Interesting. I'm not familiar with ballet but was always aware of some of the dangers around body image issues, rather than any physical damage to feet etc.

I had a couple of friends who danced as children who spoke about how toxic it was with lots of eating disorders, and praise from the staff for being very slender.

It probably isn't like that these days, though.

Ah, that's slightly different. Back in the day, there absolutely was an unhealthy focus on weight. I don't think it's as bad now though

I saw this on Facebook and put a long and considered response which I won't repost here!

However - clearly this is a male writing this else he would mention the pressure to stay thin and the pain when starting to dance en pointe. If he thinks having good turnout and better flexibility in adulthood is in any way comparable he's just exposing his own idiocy.

I don’t know about this. When the girls aged 10-11 years old are auditioning for the associate programmes. Body shape is definitely considered.

No. Bollocks.

menarche is often delayed in young athletes because they exercise a lot, and consequently have lower body fat compared to their peers. Puberty is as normal though and most have started periods by 16, and have normal cycles.

apart from injuries there is no permanent damage to the body. else there’d be thousands of ex elite gymnasts with permanent damage - except for injuries.

back in the soviet days it may have been true, but that wasn’t necessarily the training, but the drugs and “supplements” many eastern bloc athletes were given. There were a few moves including “hip beats” on bars which have been banned because in theory repeatedly hitting the abdomen on a wooden bar is not great for the reproductive system. No direct link ever shown though.

It's a totally false comparison. Underlying balket and gymnastics is a striving for perfection.

Underlying transing a child is denying reality is real.

While perfectionism can lead to problems, placing a child (and arguably those around them) in an actual lie is far more hatmful.

There are a lot of sports which can temporarily stop (not prevent) menstruation but it's more to do with the stress on the body of the volume of training combined with low body fat.

But it's not permanent. Once the athlete "retires" or reduces training intensity their periods usually come back.

That article is ridiculous.

It suggests that the reason girls want to do dance is to change their body.

Er, no!

Body changes are simply a side effect of dancing, as they are for most professional sports !!!!

Yes, it can stop menstruation. But the big difference is that your periods come back naturally, when you stop doing it. Not quite the same as having your breasts cut off !

I’ve seen that before, doing the rounds on Instagram etc. Some people are too stupid to teach. I like to think everyone can learn and comprehend facts but sometimes the words speak for themselves. I also hate the ultra self conscious style it’s written in, the careful casual attitude and the attempt to be profound. It is, as my 11yo would say, ‘cringe.’

And my child does do ballet to quite an advanced level now. She does have good turnout and is very straight backed but I don’t think that ‘body modification’ is quite comparable to me signing her up to have her breasts cut off.

Actually I would say it's the exact opposite. You need the right body for ballet. You may develop particular facets in a particular way through training, but you can't change the fundamental things that Mother Nature gave you. Turnout is ultimately limited by bone structure. Yes, of course with training you can use more of your available turnout but if your femoral head does not move in the hip socket enough you can train all you like, want it intensely but you will not get flat turnout if your anatomy doesn't allow it. Most people will improve with hard work and good quality teaching of course but many will ultimately be limited by biology. One of my children trained professionaly and now teaches - they had many of the desirable physical attributes, strong technique and great musicality. But short legs. Hence opportunities limited. And there is nothing you can do about things like that.
Successful dancers, especially classical dancers certainly train their bodies in very specific ways but the bottom line is that you need the correct physique to start with. One of the hardest lessons an aspiring dancer has to learn is that certain anatomical features just can't be changed, that you have to work with your body as it is and that you can't actually "be anything you want to be if you want it enough".

Agree with @MrsAvocet. Those professional male dancers with strong, long muscles were selected for vocational training as children because their bodies were the ballet ideal. Same with girls.

My daughter is a professional. Apart from having an amazing, athletic physique, her body has not abnormally altered. She also doesn't walk along the street in turnout. Actually, students are taught nowadays that they shouldn't do it - there's no reason to.

It’s full of lies. Puberty blockers are not reversible or without lasting effects in the way that this idiot suggests.

There is nothing they will not stoop to, though.

Yep my 17 year old still over coming eating disorder from Dance and body issues. I discovered 2 more despite the dance teacher and parents saying they were fine, only my daughter was the only one with an issue.

I don't think so.
Dancers love the music, the expression, the movement and the costumes and friendships and team work.
Anyone can love dancing, including trans people. Trans people often have a lonely and confused life for a long while.
Trans and Dance does rhyme - that is the strongest connection to my mind.