Who is unreasonable about disposable income?

[SwimmingwiththeFishes]

Just to preface this by saying this wasn't some almighty row but a difference of opinion that I'd like other's thoughts on!

I also want to say I really do understand that we are in a very fortunate position to be even discussing this and many are struggling just to pay the bills. So I really thought about posting this but I genuinely want to see if I'm being unreasonable.

We are married, 2 DC and have separate accounts, joint savings but very much what's mine is yours when it comes to paying for bills/things.

I am the breadwinner and pay 90% of the bills incl food. I have absolutely no problem with this as DH puts money into savings (an agreed amount) and overpays the mortgage (an agreed amount)

I am lucky enough to have money left over after bills. DP also has money left over after putting money into savings/mortgage overpayments. The amounts are roughly the same

Pretty much every month I spend what I have left. New clothes for DC, we might do activities at the weekend, days out, meals out etc. This sounds excessive but I literally mean swimming, football hobbies, new shoes, lunch out at cafe at the park, big day out maybe once a month in town, a couple of nights out with friends etc.

DH doesn't spend much of his disposable income and instead tops up the savings.

Recently he has suggested I should save some of my disposable income and cut back on what I spend. He has suggested the DC don't need to do as much as they do, we could do more at home, nights out with friends could be inviting them here for drinks instead etc

I disagree. I worked really bloody hard to get a decent salary pre kids as I knew my career would stall. We are lucky enough to be able to save and still have money left over and I feel strongly that I worked to put us in the position where we could eat out, enjoy ourselves and still have a nest egg. I don't see why we should cut back when we don't need to.

YANBU: it's his choice to save his money and you can spend as you'd like

YABU: you should match his additional savings and cut back

The issue is that the kids stuff and family activities are viewed as one of your "discretionary spends".

Kids stuff and family activities should be treated the same as other bills etc. and should come out of the joint account. You need to agree with your husband what this reasonably involves... for example, new shoes and clothes of reasonable quality when needed is fine. Also school expenses and party gifts. One or two activities per child per week plus swimming also reasonable. Then I would say one "cheaper" family weekend activity per week (swimming, soft play, bowling etc.) and then maybe one more expensive day out every couple of months, given that you're not hard up and can afford it. A couple of holidays per year and some camps/family outings in school holidays.

But this is what you need to agree, then there should be no need to cut back on your own "discretionary spending".

I think that the fact that you use the term breadwinner says everything about your relationship!

I don't know what to think. To be clear what does your DH earn? We need figures not just you saying you pay 90 percent.

How much is DH saving? How much is he over paying the mortgage?

I mean, no one is being unreasonable, you just have different points of view.

The problem with savings is, while it's great to have them, with the inflation they're going to lose value overtime. So 5k today will go further than 5k in 20 years. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have savings - having an emergency fund for unplanned spending is pretty useful, - but I wouldn't necessarily want to put a lot into it, over paying the mortgage is a better use of the money.

How much does he think you should save per month ? "as much as possible" isn't a useful answer. Get him to name an amount and see if you can work out a compromise (and see if you can put the money somewhere with a decent interest rate so it doesn't lose too much value overtime).

couod you tell us how much is outstanding on the mortgage?

If it is earmarked as your spends then spend it.
We have separate money and can't imagine dh telling me to cut back on spending my own money!

How much are we talking?

£100? That's reducing by one family meal out if there's 4 of you.

£500? Bit more difficult.

He sounds like he’s being tight and he should be paying for some of the day to day kid stuff too

By the time the mortgage comes up for renewal in 2027 we will still be net better off even if interest rates are up at 5% as we won't be paying for two children in full time nursery.

So we are actually on a tighter budget now compared to when we remortgage in 4 years time simply as we won't be paying so much in childcare

Yanbu. You have a good set up already imo
A savings account
Overpaying the mortgage
An enjoyable lifestyle

Pretty similar to what we did. We always saved/invested etc but never lived frugally or missed out on holidays, dc activities, days out and we're still retiring early.

What is the point of squirreling away everything for the future so that you can live then? That's no use to your dc and it might not be any use to you or dh either. Don't give in.

YANBU - I would suggest your DH should be keeping the extra as his own private savings though rather than topping up the shared savings.

We have a slightly different set-up but it works out the same. We pay everything into a shared account where the bills come from. We then pay ourselves a set monthly amount from the shared account as an allowance. Most of the additional spending you mentioned that's coming from your funds would come from our shared account in our set-up though.

I tend to save my monthly allowance, DH tends to spend his. So I'm more like your DH. I roll my eyes at my husband's spending sometimes 😅 but at the end of the day it's his money to do with as he wishes. I have no say over it.

If your husband wants to clear the mortgage sooner or anything else then that's a discussion you both need to have. It sounds like what he's doing is trying to clear debts with his personal money and then potentially building resentment that you're not helping to do it. I totally understand him wanting to lower debts, but don't agree with how he's going about it if that's what he's doing.

I disagree that the issue is that he doesn't pay for monthly childcare expenses. They are not much and it isn't an issue.

If he were to transfer me money for the kids this is what would happen:
DH transfers me £x towards kids stuff
DH saves £x less than he was from his disposable income
I then will have £x roughly left at the end of the month that I haven't spent
It would probably be sensible then to chuck it in savings.

This is absolutely no different to what we're doing now, but he's saving it.

What he is suggesting is that what we spend (on kids and ourselves) could be reduced in order to save more/pay off more of the mortgage.

I’d choose to go out & really let rip, rather than have people round which to me involves more work than fun. I’m all for clearing debt, but go out & enjoy your life whilst you can.

I disagree with your DH.

We have a very similar set up, and the same amount of disposable income left at the end of it (well DH has marginally more, but in return he spends more on meal out etc)

I'd be very unhappy if he then thought he got a say on how I spent my disposable income, and vice versa. Our savings etc are agreed. Our budgets are based on agreement. If we then need to change it, we discuss as equals what it gets changed to.

After that, what money in our account is ours to spend exactly as we wish.

Your dc care not a jot about mortgages and bills. They do want to have a fun childhood! If both are affordable why not do both?

No, there is a psychological difference.

He now sees himself as the 'sensible saver' and you as the 'profligate spender'.

That's because you are allowing him to by pretending that discretionary spending on the kids is you spending money on yourself.

It should come from joint income. I get it ... he then moans ... but better that than this false narrative.

@SwimmingwiththeFishes it's a difficult one because you're both free to spend your money as you wish whether that'll be on the children, clothes etc but at the same time you're both at that point where any disposable income belongs to one or the other and it's not shared.

We don't have children but what we do is our wages get paid into the joint account and then our bills, food, date nights, diesel, petrol etc comes out of the joint account. £££ gets paid into the savings account and then we each get £££ each gets paid into mine and my hubbys own separate account and this separate account we both have is use to spend as we wish or not spend at all. Hubby earns 3x times more than me but disposable income we spend is the same amount and this has worked for us for 15 years, he has never said to me that because he earns much more than me I should spend more or less or I've never asked to borrow money from him because he earns more, it's an equal partnership. When we do have children it will be no different, any expenditures on the kids will come out of the joint account

heads up - afterschool care is also expensive as are the breakfast clubs

Once upon a time we also looked ahead at no childcare fees! But instead they were swallowed up by before and afterschool childcare

Even though you are saying oh we will be fine because of the childcare it seems a bit daft to pay out an extra ££££££ a month if you could at least partially avoid some of it

youve not said how much extra he wants to pay off the mortgage though or said how much your mortgage will increase by in five years

He is only thinking ahead so I’m with him

a partial compromise would be good

Just back to this thread post work.

Thanks for the responses. To answer some questions

When our mortgage comes up in 2027 we'll have c 100k left to pay on it. If interest rates went up to 5% it would be about £270 a month more than we are paying now

BUT we won't be paying £1800 a month in childcare. Whilst I know after school/breakfast clubs are pricey I don't think they stack up against full time nursery!

DH currently pays about £300 a month into mortgage over payments and we save about £500 a month

I feel all of the above is reasonable and doesn't mean we should tighten our belts any further.

But I accept many of you have suggested there must be a compromise. I think we'll have a look at it all over the weekend and see what's fair but I am definitely going to push for having fun now vs saving and missing out

If you're both left with the same "spending money" he should be contributing to DC activity and clothes . Personally I'd have a further allocation from income to a joint account for that, leaving you with equal spending money after DC costs.

We do what a poster above does.

All income goes into one account. All bills / family expenses come out of that (including transfers to savings etc).

We each then have a certain (equal) amount transferred to our own separate accounts as 'fun' money. For us, that means primarily to use on hobbies. He has a tendency to spend it each month, I often don't spend any for a few months and it builds up.

'Family' stuff such as going out, doing things with children etc would come out of the general account.

For us, a conversation about more saving would involve transferring more into savings from the general account, and might involve an agreement to reduce the 'fun' money allocation for a bit, but there wouldn't be any suggestion of telling each other what to do with our 'fun' money.

Is he feeling hard done by because his disposable money is going into savings, so 'swallowed up'?

Is your relationship solid? I cant understand why he would want even more money in the bank instead of enjoying his family and social life and his children having experiences. Unless he is thinking about when he will be taking his half out.

OP, you've given lots of irrelevant information (like how you are dividing costs), which is distracting everybody, and you missed out key relevant information.

When deciding how much to save versus spend, as a couple, I would think about:

1. Your ages, and security, prospects in your jobs
2. Your assets - e.g: not just having savings to cover a few months cost if you lose a job (that's an emergency fund) but do you have pension funds you could be topping up?
3. Related to that, what are your retirement plans? When do you want to stop working and what pension income do you want to have by then and what kind of lifestyle do you want?
4. Any dreams you have Eg upsizing a property or moving?
5. While never guaranteed, what other sources of income might you have? Eg inheritance? How easy to increase your salaries?
6. Any long term dependencies your children may have- your plan to cover university fees/ weddings etc... or if your parents aren't well off, might they need support?
7. Are your assets and earning power are already fully insured with disability/ long term sickness/ life insurance/ contents and building insurance etc....? If not, this would influence the level of emergency savings you'd ideally want.
8. Do you want to be able to leave money to your children, or just make ends meet until you die?

Basically a financial plan and picture of all your assets and income- now and predicted for the future, will help give you a more objective assessment of whether you are saving enough to build the life you want for you and your kids, versus enjoying it now.

I'd go through those things with your partner and see if you can build a clear picture together. Then you can put questions like 'enjoy a bit of extra comfort now' versus 'save more' into perspective? If he sees the figures and can see everything you guys might want is already covered plus a cushion, he may well relax. Alternatively, you may realize you'd rather save more!