What's your stance on this?

LoraPiano · 2023-03-27T11:13:13+00:00

Was having heated debate with a few friends about the news article that came out recently about a lawyer who quit her legal job to do onlyfans with ~$60k/mo income. I can't but help view it as a huge step back for women, to be viewed a sexual object and to do something akin to prostitution especially when she has a degree and a career so it's not like she is forced into it. Other friends (female, early 30s/late 20s), were staunch supporters of this "empowerment" and kept saying the entire point of feminism is for women to be respected and supported whatever choice they make. Not like we can do anything about it because capitalism, but I am actually wondering why it just doesn't sit right with me. What do you people think? YANBU = It objectifies her and is not a good thing YABU = She can do what she wants and it's not for us to judge, only support

Sapphire387 · 27/03/2023 12:18

I think women making 'choices' that perpetuate misogyny are part of the problem.

GigiGrey · 27/03/2023 12:31

Completely understand your viewpoint. The woman in the article has left a job that she had as a result of feminism and the fight for equal rights, to return to the kind of work that woman have had to resort to for centuries, often out of desperation.

It could be said that it's empowering for her to own her sexuality and choose to do that work, rather than be forced into it, and reap 100% of the rewards from this. I certainly don't think we should judge a woman who exploits the male gaze for her own financial benefit, especially when we've all been victims of it simply by being born female.

However, it doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed that despite the achievements of women, for women over the last 100 years, we're still resorting to this sort of work.

ManipulatorPedipulator · 27/03/2023 12:35

Her body, her choice. The only argument that women have that sex work is unacceptable is the idea it’s forced. If it’s not forced, why is it unacceptable? Who is being hurt by it? Why is a woman choosing to sell how she looks any more of a problem than Usain Bolt making money from using his body to move quickly?

Can anyone actually give an argument why they think it’s wrong?

Cheeping · 27/03/2023 12:37

GigiGrey · 27/03/2023 12:31

Completely understand your viewpoint. The woman in the article has left a job that she had as a result of feminism and the fight for equal rights, to return to the kind of work that woman have had to resort to for centuries, often out of desperation.

It could be said that it's empowering for her to own her sexuality and choose to do that work, rather than be forced into it, and reap 100% of the rewards from this. I certainly don't think we should judge a woman who exploits the male gaze for her own financial benefit, especially when we've all been victims of it simply by being born female.

However, it doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed that despite the achievements of women, for women over the last 100 years, we're still resorting to this sort of work.

She’s not “resorting” to it. She’s choosing to do it. Just the same argument you’ve made could apply to being a SAHM. Are you opposed to women choosing to do that too?

GallopingGreen · 27/03/2023 12:39

I can see both sides of the argument.
But it still just makes me feel really sad.

StopFeckingFaffing · 27/03/2023 12:41

I agree with you OP that it feels very much like a step backwards in terms of woman's rights and protecting women and girls from abuse and oppression

It may be a free choice but it's a very naive and misguided one IMHO

mollyoppy · 27/03/2023 12:49

Why do I have to 'respect and support' everyone, whatever they choose to do? Absolutely meaningless.

It is my right to disapprove of what I see as sad/stupid/short-sighted choices. As far as I'm concerned, adults should be free to do whatever daft things they want within the law. But I don't have to think or say 'wow girl, yeah, amazing'.

(To be clear, I'm talking about women who have a choice.)

Ducksinthebath · 27/03/2023 12:55

We live in an imperfect world and ideally these types of ‘jobs’ result in exploitation and value judgements being made about people that could harm their future wellbeing. Ideally we wouldn’t but we do. So I would only do it in circumstances where I had no other option. And if she were my friend or daughter, I’d try hard to support but I wouldn’t be the life I would want for her.

Equally I would be sceptical about a career in professional sport or the arts and try to encourage a back up option. Anything where you rely on looks or physical prowess is vulnerable to whatever circumstances cast up.

sst1234 · 27/03/2023 13:00

You are not wrong OP. The problem is that some women will jump on the equality bandwagon when it suits and at other times monetize the misogynistic attitude of men, calling it ‘choice’. It reeks of hypocrisy and opportunism and really sets back the cause for women in general.

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 27/03/2023 13:03

It's such a coup for the patriarchy that so many young feminists believe "sex work" is a feminist act. It isn't empowering and it doesn't help equality one little bit.

Of course she can do what she wants but no, we absolutely do not have to support it. Feminism isn't about supporting anything a woman does, regardless of how harmful it is.

GigiGrey · 27/03/2023 13:10

Cheeping · 27/03/2023 12:37

She’s not “resorting” to it. She’s choosing to do it. Just the same argument you’ve made could apply to being a SAHM. Are you opposed to women choosing to do that too?

Show quote history

I don't think she's resorting to it, I said It could be said that it's empowering for her to own her sexuality and choose to do that work, rather than be forced into it, and reap 100% of the rewards from this.

For centuries this was the only way for women to make an income, so they often resorted to it. Women who do so now, through their own choice and under no form of coercion, should be able to do so free of any judgement.

StarlightLady · 27/03/2023 13:11

OP, to use some of your words in the options "She can do what she wants and it's not for us to judge" but you don't have to support, that is a separate issue. It's nothing to do with you though.

I expect she has opted for a far less pressurised environment where she can probably choose her own hours.

Cheeping · 27/03/2023 13:31

GigiGrey · 27/03/2023 13:10

I don't think she's resorting to it, I said It could be said that it's empowering for her to own her sexuality and choose to do that work, rather than be forced into it, and reap 100% of the rewards from this.

For centuries this was the only way for women to make an income, so they often resorted to it. Women who do so now, through their own choice and under no form of coercion, should be able to do so free of any judgement.

Show quote history

I’m sorry, I misunderstood when you said, we're still resorting to this sort of work that you meant she was resorting to this kind of work.

You initially said you completely understand the OP’s viewpoint (which is judging the woman in question) and that her decision disappoints you (which is judging the woman in question). You’re also saying she should be able to make that choice without judgement…but you’re judging her.

Sqqueeeeeeee · 27/03/2023 13:32

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 27/03/2023 13:03

It's such a coup for the patriarchy that so many young feminists believe "sex work" is a feminist act. It isn't empowering and it doesn't help equality one little bit.

Of course she can do what she wants but no, we absolutely do not have to support it. Feminism isn't about supporting anything a woman does, regardless of how harmful it is.

How is it harmful to you?

happysingleversary · 27/03/2023 13:34

Articles like that are printed to encourage women to enter an oversaturated market in which it's difficult at this point to make significant amounts but generates a lot for the site the more people sign up.

happysingleversary · 27/03/2023 13:34

The time of making that much easily on OF is gone. Now they just want more and more women to make buttons and add to their empire.

SemperIdem · 27/03/2023 13:36

Feminism isn’t about supporting all choices women make. Their right to make those choices, perhaps. Not all choices are feminist.

Getting your tits out for money is not a feminist choice, but it is one that some women are free to make. More are forced into sex work and presenting it as a choice completely detracts from the trauma sex trafficked women experience.

SpideysMummy · 27/03/2023 13:38

I mean, if someone would pay me £60k per month to take photos in my pants (I’m sure there’s more to it but it doesn’t sound particularly taxing tbh), I’d probably do it. Principals be damned.

JudgeRudy · 27/03/2023 13:40

I don't have a problem with her making that choice. I think think this type of work does sexulise women. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I don't feel it defines her (to anyone who matters)
When I want my boiler sorting I call for a heating engineer. When he (has been so far) I'm not interested in him as a person, I just want to pay him for his skill and labour. Am I objectifying him? If we were on a date, I'd be judging him differently.

happysingleversary · 27/03/2023 13:41

We're here arguing over a fake situation.

NalafromtheLionKing · 27/03/2023 13:42

$60k a MONTH is huge (like PPs, I’m wondering whether it is actually true, given the huge amount of easily accessible free porn).

If it is, then I still wouldn’t personally do it (as the pictures/images would be out there and away from my control forever) but I wouldn’t blame someone else for choosing that. I reckon a lot of men would do the equivalent if that were a choice open to them.

BatsHaveButtcheeks · 27/03/2023 13:42

Her body, her choice, her boundaries.

Is it a smart move for the long term? Who knows. It would certainly make things harder, if not impossible, to return to a profession after doing this.

60k a month though. That's not chump change.

GigiGrey · 27/03/2023 13:49

Cheeping · 27/03/2023 13:31

I’m sorry, I misunderstood when you said, we're still resorting to this sort of work that you meant she was resorting to this kind of work.

You initially said you completely understand the OP’s viewpoint (which is judging the woman in question) and that her decision disappoints you (which is judging the woman in question). You’re also saying she should be able to make that choice without judgement…but you’re judging her.

Show quote history

I do completely understand the OP's view point, it doesn't mean I completely agree with it. I think you can question someone's decisions, without necessarily judging them for it. It does disappoint me that the woman in the article has been successful in an industry that has previously been out of reach for women, only to decide to go into an industry that many women have previously been forced into/would love to escape, but ultimately she's done so of her own free will and it's not for me or anyone else to think less of her for doing so. I do question her decision, but if it makes sense to her I don't judge her for doing what she thinks is in her best interest.