To expect DD to start swimming lessons at Stage 2

[Eurydice84]

DD started Waterbabies at 4 weeks and she started swimming without floats just after turning 3. For the last year I have been taking her to the pool myself and she is getting so much better: she swims underwater and can do a full width of the pool by herself. So I went to sign her up for proper lessons with Nuffield Health and it was a bumpy experience.

• First they told me she should do pre-schooler/Duckling lessons; we went to one and it was really too basic.
• The teacher suggested she joins Stage 1, however she will only allowed to do so after her 4th birthday (rules of the club);
• The Stage 1 kids are still using armbands. I checked the outcomes for Stage 1 and DD can already do everything. But the swimming pool manager won't allow her to start at Stage 2.

Are swimming clubs usually so difficult? I question paying over-inflated prices for DD to get bored waiting ages for her turn to do something she already knows. But maybe I am missing something here...

I'd just sign her up, she'll pass through stage 1 very quickly. Everyone starting in stage 1 will be at different levels of ability and confidence, some will move on sooner than others.

When we moved back to the UK (so kids had learned abroad) they were assessed by the swimming lesson manager... one went into Stage 4, the other Stage 5. They were 6&8. They assessed every new starter like that.

We moved over Covid and the new swim school just asked me what they had been in before and put them in those lessons.

Asking to wait to a certain age is fair enough though.. 3yos have completely different understanding to older kids. In DDs lessons abroad they had to be accompanied in the water until 5yo even if they were swimming lengths!

Swimming teacher here.
It's nothing to do with their swimming ability and what they achieve 121 with a parent right there. It's about safety, and ability to listen and follow rules in a group class which that age generally can't.

I am so frustrated hearing 'my mummy says I can do it without armbands' . What I should say is 'well, your mummy isn't taking the class with 6 other preschoolers all out of their depth and incapable of following instructions now is she.'

My DD started stage 1 at 4 and was referred to as the demo baby/child her baby/toddler/pre-school swimming lessons as she was so confident in the water. None of the local swimming providers would let her start stage 1 until she was 4 and at school which is a pain when your birthday is in the autumn term!

We managed to find one provider that would take her at stage one at 4 (no armbands but they do use noddles some of the time) and 4.5 she moved up to stage 2. Her swimming improved massively in stage one and for me the most important part of stage one is for them to learn to take instruction and be safe in the pool.

I've read the thread now and a little bit of advise from the handful of pushy parents on here - there's nothing worse as a teacher than at their first lesson the parent coming elbows first 'Tabitha doesn't need armbands.' We'll politely swallow back our 'oh just fuck off' whilst saying, and also meaning ' thank you for letting me know. I'll assess her this lesson and let you know where she will be best placed.'
We will be assessing their ability, which to you might be just how far they go, but there's far more to it than that - body position/breathing/bubbles, rotation etc - also their ability to be safe in a group as ratios get bigger as you go up. For example stage 3 is ratio 10/1 and teacher poolside- stage 1 is 6/1 and teacher in the water. So the child may well be able to do 5m front and back of stage 2, but are they safe in a 10/1 poolside teacher group?
My point is, personally I am a really experienced (and good but that's by the by 😜) teacher, as many of us are. We've seen 100s upon 1000s of kids, trust us to do our jobs.

*for not from

I'm on a bit of a rant today, so just to carry on...I've been teaching for about 20 years...what really really doesn't work is when a child is pushed through the stages based on the distance only. Because of their parents insistence. (I would tolerate it but I'm menopausal, younger teachers might just do it because the parent said so). They get to about stage 4 on one breath alone, zero technique. Haven't learned to breathe, float, kick properly/ rotate to the side. They get stuck at stage 4/5 for ages, because they were pushed too much at the beginning. It's so much more important to nail the basics in stage 1, rather than instagramming my 4 year old doing butterfly.

*wouldnt

arethereanyleftatall as a fellow teacher I completely agree. Drives me nuts when I get kids in my higher stages that just haven't mastered the basics.

Just take her yourself then

You'll have the same problem I have with my youngest, they are exceptional for their age so their swimming ability outstrips their ability to engage with the class. How you would teach a 4 year old is so different to how you would teach a 7 or 8 year old. It will all even out by the time they are 4.5 or so. It's kind of the nature of group lessons to be a bit one size fits all though. Either pay for private 121 or keep going by yourselves for practice.

I'd suggest 121 lessons if they're available - even if it's more expensive. The teacher can focus just on the one child and progress at their rate - no waiting around for the others, which might be tricky for a younger child to handle. I agree that in group lessons it's not just about swimming ability but about safety when the teacher is on the side and there's a bunch of bigger kids in the pool.

It's not up to you to decide. She should be assessed by an instructor. Round here stage 1 can only be started at 4 and a half. The waiting lists are long for all levels so there's no way anyone could argue the toss. Stage 1 is also split into two levels (not sure if that's normal, or just due to demand). The demand is even greater post covid as many who were doing lessons stopped and picked up where they left off, but many more kids wanted to start so places are like hen's teeth. That could be another reason why they won't let her start at a more advanced level. Remember it's not just 'can swim a width-tick', it's about technique too.

If your DD were to go into stage 2 at under 4 years old she'd be the youngest by a long way. That might be ok, but it might not. Depends on the provider/instructor.
Maybe arrange 1 to 1 lessons as others have suggested.

youwould have thought at this stage the teacher would have some sort of helper

My daughter is 5 and in reception and she is the youngest in Stage 2. All her swim mates are 6/7 in Stage 2. The older ones tend to move up more quickly after stage one as they have better concentration (and are therefore able to take instruction better), and have better strength and co-ordination than a 5 year old.

Dc did a preschool course for 4 weeks and then got moved straight to stage 2 immediately after 4th birthday. But it was on assessment by the teacher, not on my view. The way children are taught to swim in waterbabies etc for survival is a very different technique to proper strokes. Can your DC swim on their front lifting their head to breathe?

Oh and my dc is not the norm. The others in their stage 2 class are 5/6 and even approaching 7.

DS can swim a width of the teaching pool underwater. He's 4 he's just gone up to stage 1 this summer. That's fine. It's not a race and there's no way I'd want him in a class of ten children with the teacher on the side. He can do the skills, when he's listening, but he's not old enough for the lesson style of the next stages up. He will likely go up to stage 2 before Christmas but I'm in no rush for him to do so. It's not going to hurt him to keep practicing the basics, and to learn that to progress he needs to focus and pay attention all of the time not just when he wants to, and that he can't just rely on his innate fish sensibilities.

My DD was like this at 4 and they did move her up and it put her right off swimming. She was in a class with 6 and 7 year olds and whilst her water confidence and skills were good enough she really struggled with concentration and the bigger group and speed of instructions.

We ended up taking about 6 months off as she was also knackered in reception and she’s swimming beautifully now and has the maturity to deal with the more advanced class.

Why bother with lessons? Sounds like your kid can already swim. Just carry on as you are, demonstrate the action you want them to learn and have them repeat it etc.

If she can already swim a full width does she need swimming lessons at all at this point?

My children could both swim young. I took my then 3 year old to an assessment and the class they offered was too basic (pre school with parent in water). I knew the teachers as my eldest swam there and we agreed lessons were pointless as her emotional maturity wasn't at the same level as her swimming. I just kept taking her alone for another year - she started at four and flew through the early levels, she was in the first one without parents for three lessons and second for five (she could already swim 25m but not great technique). They also used the disc armbands as put earlier levels in the deep end.

The issue is supervision and buoyancy aids. If you want your Waterbabies baby in the pool with float wearing babies, you need to be in pool with them to catch them if they go under. Swimming a width is fabulous, but so young need to be closely supervised if they don't float