MH issues in 5 year olds other than ASD?

[Flyingwasp]

If anyone has a child around 5 with a diagnosed MH issue thats not (typical) ASD. Could you pls tell me about the most telling signs (or quirks) that prompted the specific diagnosis?

My 5 year old seems to be struggling a lot and it has really impacted our lives. It’s been going on for years and I gave up on hoping he’ll outgrow it. Of course, I thoroughly read up on ASD and ADHD but quite frankly these don’t seem to fit (even at a stretch).

I know I’ll need a professional to diagnose him but I’d at least like know what direction to look. Any kind of professional diagnosis will be years away as he’s high functioning and it’s normally the “wait and see” advice I’m getting.

Family members think it’s only due to bad parenting and I agree that’s very much a possibility. But, still, there’s a possibility he has some underlying problem that would need a specific approach to manage, so I’m just trying to gather more info.

It might help to know what the problems are

Well, it seems like the terrible twos have never stopped for us. He’s frustrated and angry all the time.

When you say ‘poor parenting’ what are you referring to?

Can you elaborate more on his difficulties?

poor parenting- I guess I made mistakes in handling his tantrums etc. when younger as he still does these and acts out all the time even now at 5. I tried multiple things I read as parenting advice and guess I ended up being inconsistent.

The problems are mostly aggression, anger and seems to be stressed and ready to explode all the time. Just very unhappy no matter what we try.

Just to clarify, the agressive behaviour and screaming tantrums happen continuously, like every hour most days and they can be very dangerous (he doesn’t hold back with the violence, so can end up causing injuries). There are also other “quirks” but those would not bother us much.

Lots of chromosome deletions , duplications and genetic problems can also cause neuro diversity.

PANS PANDAS is a condition that can look similar and occurs after common childhood illnesses like chickenpox or Strep A, or Covid. https://www.panspandasuk.org

@Polgarahairstreak thanks for the reply. I guess that’s something I would need a professional to identify as I have no knowledge in this area.

What sort of thing leads to the tantrums and what are his "quirks"?

@TheodoreMortlock thanks, i’ll have a read. I don’t think he had a major illness of this kind, but obviously had smaller viruses.

I'm an adoptive parent and my 3.5yo has some emotional challenges due to his early life experiences but I'm not sure what the official diagnosis would be. Possibly developmental trauma. I assume you would mention if your son was adopted but other traumatic events can affect a child (hospitalisation, domestic violence, loss of a parent etc).
Difficulties with emotional regulation is a trait of Dyspraxia as well as Autism and ADHD so that might be another one to look at.

Has he been taught to regulate his emotions (as much as a 5yr old can) and doesn’t do this, or has it not been taught iYSWIM?

Without more information it's hard to offer advice but have you looked into PDA at all? Extreme nervous system dysregulation and anxiety driven need for autonomy that can manifest as explosive behaviour that people put down to poor parenting. My daughter is PDA but has an introverted presentation of it. Have a look at the PDA Society website and see if that ticks any boxes re your experience with your child?

@UnbeatenMum i’ll have a read about dyspraxia. No major trauma of that kind, i guess his birth wasn’t the most peaceful one but not that terrible either.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/

This sounds quite a lot like my DS, who has a diagnosis of PDA (pathological demand avoidance) which is on the autistic spectrum. He’s very sociable, not particularly attached to routine, etc. and so everyone dismissed the possibility of autism early on. We had to try again and again to get to the bottom of what was making life so tough. Traditional parenting approaches - consistency, rewards & sanctions, rigid boundaries and routines - made family life a fucking nightmare. Meltdowns constantly, lasting hours.

Life has been SO much calmer since we started low-demand parenting (I.e. doing pretty much the exact opposite of all the parenting advice you’ve ever been given). It has meant restructuring our entire lives, though, and developing a very thick skin as to the untrained eye we look like shit parents whose lack of boundaries have caused the minor difficulties our child has, rather than parents who’ve responded to the child we have, making the enormously distressing, disabling difficulties he used to have much more manageable.

Read The Explosive Child, and check out the FB group The B Team for a really helpful framework for ways to problem solve with your child. These were life-changing for us.

Haha cross posted with all the other PDA parents 👋

@catlitterinmyturnups I had a look at that before and that’s obviously a possibility.

I was just wondering if adhd, ocd or other conditions can have similar presentations too.

@LeafHunter it’s hard to know. This is where the “bad parenting” comes in, I just think even if I did everything wrong and didn’t teach him these things properly, by this time he should have just learnt on his own…

Could be be in pain? My friend's son had Crohns and was very difficult when young.

Also his eyes and hearing tested in case there is a problem with either of these.

And teeth need checking too.

Unlikely but you never know.

The thing is with the PDA type autism, we’ve pretty much done this kind of low demand parenting even before reading about it (whenever we tried being stricter it got even worse), we don’t have many rules, only very basic ones, don’t have a hectic life. Still, he seems so unhappy. Things are not perfect and I don’t have endless patience and can get emotional from it all but we really have tried to be understanding.

There’s a little boy in my sons year 2 class that sounds similar. He’s on a special timetable currently doing just mornings.

He’s an angry child, explosive temper and very controlling in his friendships which is all part of his condition. Unfortunately I don’t know what he’s been diagnosed with to help direct you. But def a possibility that your son has an identifiable condition to work with.

@Feeling100 yes, this discription sounds familiar…

I’m fairly certain the typical, main ASD and ADHD symptoms are not there (like preference for routine, disinterest in relationships or lack of attention, hyperactivity etc), so was just thinking maybe it’s something else like, PDA, Ocd, Tourette’s or bipolar… In all honesty, I still hope it’s just ineffective parenting and he will eventually outgrow it, but I’m so worried there’s more to it.

Sensory issues can present very similarly and are not always part of ASD/ADHD.

This for example could have described my eldest and describes my 4.5yo very well. I'm currently looking into possible accommodations for him:

https://theotbutterfly.com/sensoryseeker/sensory-processing/

If it’s any consolation this particular boy has improved since he started in reception. Chairs getting flung across the class was a regular occurrence, he can now often take himself to a quiet space instead of just exploding in class.

My DD is awaiting an ASD assessment but has a lot of sensory issues which are the cause of most ( not all) her meltdowns. I took her to an Occupational Therapist who picked up the obvious ones and some more subtle ones like issues with intoception ( think that's the right turn) and weak postural muscles do it actually causes her pain to sit up straight like they expect in school.