Leaving kids with narcissistic father

[legofootcasualty]

I am a single parent of 2 (5 and 2) with some health problems that cause pain and fatigue.

I've very low contact/no contact with F and his side of the family after years of emotional abuse.

He's gotten in touch to ask if he can take them to a big family event - pick up Friday drop off Monday.

I am exhausted to the point of illness and need a break (can't afford one otherwise and no other support beyond asking another school parent in an absolute emergency). I know they will be safe and fine. The thought of a weekend to myself...I can't explain. It would be SUCH a relief.

But I'm the scapegoat of the family (before I stopped contact) so this feels uncomfortable, even if I'm not personally exposed to any little comments etc. It will be a big point that he's got the kids.

He's been sending me texts saying 'surely I won't deprive the children of this', 'please I ask you to think of the children,' etc. Just trying as usual to paint me as the scapegoat while he is the saviour.

AIBU to let them go? Or to say no? And how would I say no - I feel like in communicating with him my feelings are clear but whatever I say comes out emotional and unclear while he says all the right things.

Sorry you are poorly but packing your dc off with a stranger - and a not very nice one - is neglect imo. And quite abusive... Have a lazy week end. Early nights for all. And be glad your dc will be safe in their own beds... Block your f.

You say you’re low contact with him, do the kids know him? Would they feel comfortable spending three nights with him? That’s quite a long time to be away from you for a 2 year old.

He's not a stranger to them - going low contact has been within the past 6 months. And no chance of a lazy weekend with the kids here. Constant screaming, cleaning up messes, running around and me shouting not to break things, falling over and needing hugs. My condition means it's painful and exhausting even to stand up or bend down. Obviously it's easier to say just don't do it if you're not in my position but I want to add context as to why I am struggling.

Letting your children go to spend time with an emotionally abusive family is abuse in itself. It sounds as if they have not been on such visits before. Imagine their trauma being in this unknown situation for the first time. Consider your children's needs before your own.

oMG please say no. What if he keeps them And won’t bring them back? Your children will be effectively with strangers for a whole weekend. Please don’t do this to them.

They know my family and have been around them a lot. Weekends away etc. It won't be a problem at all for them - just for me due to our dynamic.

If you don’t have a court order and he keeps them, you will spend six months trying to get them back.

As the children will be safe, sounds like you could all do with the break. Sometimes people use a notebook so they minimise interaction. You could say in a text "children are available 5pm Friday to 9am Monday next weekend as long as you don't come in my front door. I will send a notebook with helpful info about them"

Maybe ask mn to remove the part you mention emotional abuse in your initial post. . Surely you aren't offering up your dc to emotional abuse? Are you?

Is it their father or your father?

Was the abuse directed at you or at them?.

I think it's your father and the abuse was directed at you, is that correct?

Is it their father or your father?

Was the abuse directed at you or at them?.

I think it's your father and the abuse was directed at you, is that correct?

Op I think if it's your dad and you know he will be fine with them, then it's for you to balance the psychological impact on you of the contact against the physical benefits of a break.

I cant see why you wouldn't. You're no contact but you don't say anything about the children being no contact. An emotionally abusive man to you isn't necessarily an abusive man to his children. What exactly are you afraid of because it's unclear to me

Yes, he's my father and the emotional abuse impacted me, not them. He's perfectly fine with them. The issue is the emotional impact on me of opening the relationship back up. If it was directed at them then obviously no way would I consider it at all.

Is he a shit to them too? My parents weren’t great as parents but they were great grandparents until I had to go NC due to them sweeping CSA from a brother under the rug. Some of the things my father said at the time about CSA when it came out properly creeped the hell out of me and meant he could not be part of my children’s lives anymore and my mother would never have been able to protect them because she was in denial too. My mother has her good points, my father too but they are also both very high in narcissistic traits.

If you feel your kids would be safe that is a different dynamic to the one that you faced but still I would be extremely careful with because a narcissist would love absolutely nothing more than to destroy you though your kids, damaging your relationship with them, but as the scapegoat it is likely you will be the target not your children. FWIW I understand what you are saying about the scapegoating, it is really shit.

Sounds like you really need a break💐
If you know the children will be safe and happy send them. Otherwise don't.
The details you've given are a little unclear so hard to know.

Sorry, cross posted, clearer now.

If you're sure the children will be fine and won't have a miserable time then I'd go for it. Sounds like you really need a break.

Some unanswered questions and potential red flags would be:

Why does he suddenly want his grandkids around for an entire family weekend which is presumably quite hectic and busy? Children that age literally need someone running after them all the time, is he going to do it? Are there females in the picture like a new partner or aunts? You didn't mention your mum so they are separated? Who will do the diaper changes of the 2 yr old or accompany the 5 year old to the loo? Where and with whom are the children sleep with overnight? How many other people are at the event? Do you know each one well enough (including partners of siblings or cousins) to absolutely guarantee the children will be safe?

The idea of two young children spending two full nights at a large event with lots of people doesn't feel quite right, regardless of family dynamic. Even if there are trusted aunts, uncles and cousins around, it's still impossible to know what's going on all the time. A narcissistic grandfather doesn't sound like the type of person to be concerned about the tiny minutiae of taking care of a 2 and 5 year old (eg getting them dressed, keeping track of their snacks/drinks, taking them to the toilet, cleaning up messes, putting down for naps, ensuring a calming bedtime routine in a new environment, soothing them at night in case of wakeups, etc etc).

It sounds like he wants to parade his grandkids at a family event to get the attention and positive supply. This is very typical of narcissists. But beyond that, it seems most likely that the kids will be left alone to play with cousins or just having an eye kept on them by whoever happens to be nearby. If they were older it wouldn't be a problem since you can give them a phone and keep in direct contact. However even 5 is very young to be left alone without either parent because they can't explain things very well. If they are not feeling well, or anxious or (god forbid) something unpleasant happens then they have no way of verbalising it or getting in touch with their mum.

Very very good points. Equally a family that produce’s narcissists is a risky family abuse wise. Narcissism is suspected to be largely environmental.

If they will be safe and fine, I'd let them go. I'd ask what the plan is going forward and state what will happen if there's a hint of emotional abuse. It sounds as though both you and the children need the break and will do in the future.

No I wouldn’t do this and I am a single parent too. I have been in desperate need of a break at times but I doubt it will be a break for you because you’ll be so worried about them.

No I wouldn't and I do appreciate your personal circumstances but just no, sorry.

Presumably once you were a carefree dc? And then he changed you.
Is that the bar for your dc??

Thanks everyone reading comments