Page 12 | To wonder if this doesn't upset you, nothing will

ThirdWorld · 2023-03-21T19:21:02+00:00

I've name changed for this as it's very identifying. I live in a small village and and as a treat after a long hard day at work popped into my local pub for dinner. Lying on the floor was an elderly woman. She was covered with a warm blanket. She had tripped and fallen at lunchtime, and obviously badly hurt herself. An ambulance was called at 12:30, she is still lying there in the middle of the pub waiting for an ambulance. I've obviously read about how broken our NHS is and even read the thread on here where a poster had written about her aunt who had fallen and was waiting for about 12 hours for an ambulance. But reading about it and actually seeing it for real is even more heartbreaking. This poor old woman has been lying on a cold wooden floor for 7 hours! The owners and bar staff have been amazing and are looking after her. Well as much as they can. I can't tell you how useless I feel. There is nothing anyone can do. The woman has obviously been refusing food or fluid in fear of wetting herself. I know from reading the thread I mentioned previously that there is nothing anyone can do but wait. As we left they were getting her a pad to relieve herself. In the middle of a pub!!! This is 21st century Britain! I don't know what I'm expecting from this thread, am tempted to call the local press to see if the publicity could hurry things along, but that would probably be even more humiliating for her. This woman has no family and is cold, miserable and in pain lying in the middle of a pub. I just can't believe our country has fallen to this. God knows when an ambulance will arrive. She will end up getting more dehydrated and probably go into shock. And there is nothing anyone can do. So distressing to see and my heart bleeds for the poor woman. Just prey that none of your relatives ever have a fall. Let's hope an ambulance comes soon.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 23/03/2023 00:36

I wonder if there was some way she could’ve been gently and slowly moved… how undignified to leave her there like that. At the least I feel a screen of some sort could’ve given her some privacy.

An awful lot of talk about what should have happened with zero insight into how it could have happened. OP has made it clear the bar area was closed.

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/03/2023 00:54

I am so glad this woman received the surgical care she needed so quickly.

My mum's friend fell and broke her hip at the start of the year. The ambulance arrived quite quickly, but it took 2 days for her to get a bed on a ward and a week before she had the op.

The op only happened after her family kicked up about her being left on a bedpan for 45 minutes on day 5. 45 minutes on a bedpan with a broken hip! She is on the mend now but only because she had people to fight advocate for her.

Feuillemille23 · 23/03/2023 01:23

You'll never get a Tory voter to acknowledge their level of complicity - or complacency at best - in the current state of the NHS (and education, social care, general maintenance amongst so many others). There's an example in my circle of someone who retired on a big fat pension in the late 1980s and is now too infirm with too expensive a condition for private health care so has had to have NHS input. Doesn't stop his mouth flapping almost non stop about how bad the NHS is though.

I remember the NHS from about 1999 to about 2010 as being a fairly good place to work - not perfect, but decent. Can't quite recall what happened in 2010 but I vaguely remember some turncoat Tory enabling Lib Dems floating about a rose garden in snazzy tailored suits...

theblackradiator · 23/03/2023 01:24

TheUsualChaos · 21/03/2023 19:56

It's awful and happening daily.
The Tories have been hell-bent on pushing the public towards wanting a privatised system for years. And now here we are, 2023 and approaching the end game. An NHS failing so badly that soon people will be begging for a new privately run system to save our broken health care system.

Then, years down the line, when people realise how they were manipulated and lied to and people of all ages are dying because they can't afford treatments which would once have been provided for by the NHS without question, the government will shrug and say "this was what the public wanted".

This exactly. the future is frightening in the UK.

Phoebo · 23/03/2023 01:45

ThirdWorld · 22/03/2023 23:37

She's had 2 operations - one for a broken hip and one to do with complications from lying on a cold wooden floor for nearly 12 hours.

She's "comfortable" but in a hospital about 50 miles away, so can't visit. I wanted to send her flowers instead but I believe you can't do that now?

Gosh that's horrible 😢

Ukrainebaby23 · 23/03/2023 02:48

ThirdWorld · 22/03/2023 23:37

She's had 2 operations - one for a broken hip and one to do with complications from lying on a cold wooden floor for nearly 12 hours.

She's "comfortable" but in a hospital about 50 miles away, so can't visit. I wanted to send her flowers instead but I believe you can't do that now?

Glad shes recovering, yes EVERYONE should be upset by this, even if you dont have elderly parents or friends, one day likely you'll be the elderly person. Long lies, as they are called in the health service are well known to be extremely dangerous and increase complications in what is already a high risk population. Broken hips are high risk too and mixed with a long lie, increase fatalities. It also lengthens hospital stays and recovery is less likely and longer.
The amb crews get upset about having to provide such poor service and get stressed, it's inevitable. I believe it was also a cause of their striking.

So YES, YOU, WE, EVERY MUMSNETTER should be getting upset with the amb/nhs/politicians whoever you want to blame. It's both dangerous and uncompassionate to even attempt to move someone with a broken hip, so no, she couldn't just get put in a car/van.

Btw, Flowers, usually a no unless its a community rehab hospital then its a maybe. Nice thought though, and I think you and the pub people acted very well. Maybe send a chocolate parcel?

Karenaki · 23/03/2023 07:17

Hi, I’ve seen ads on my Facebook recently for pop up card flowers. Can’t find the exact ones but something like this. Perfect for hospital gift:

Pop Up Cards,Carnation Bouquet,12 inch Life Sized Forever Paper Flower 3D Popup Birthday Gift Greeting Cards with Note Card and Envelope for Women Girls Wife Mom(Carnation Bouquet) https://amzn.eu/d/i6WJlWy

https://amzn.eu/d/i6WJlWy?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-am-i-being-unreasonable-4768299-to-wonder-if-this-doesnt-upset-you-nothing-will

LadyHaHaHeeHaw · 23/03/2023 07:32

anon666 · 22/03/2023 22:26

I have to set you straight here. I've worked in finance in the NHS since 1997 and it is this simple. In 1997 the Labour govt inherited a service that was threadbare from years of Tory mismanagement and underfunding. Labour took over at a point where hospitals would shut down their elective surgery for 6 months when they ran out of funds, causing huge waste.

At the time I remember regular talk radio debates about the "unviability" of "free" healthcare.

Labour funded it and reformed it and put power into patients hands. It was anazing. Yes they funded through private healthcare to increase capacity. The private hospitals earned the same as NHS hospitals for each case but usually cherry picked the easier cases to make it viable. the NHS improved beyond imagination, to the point where an international report showed it to be the best health service in the world. And a relatively cheap one.

Andrew Lansley, who in my opinion should be in jail, was hellbent on an arrogant, misjudged and disastrous reform agenda. It started to destroy the NHS and the Tories have kept it in a complete state of change ever since. They've eroded every single aspect of high quality and ethics from health. They have no ideological support for the NHS and have successfully defended and destroyed it piece by piece.

They've created unbelievable working conditions for all the front line staff, and all the back office staff have to reapply for their own jobs on a one or two year rotation.

This is an eye witness account over the past 26 years.

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Wow @anon666 , a powerful post, that must have been hard to work through
It's always good to educate people

Honeyroar · 23/03/2023 07:36

anon666 · 22/03/2023 22:26

I have to set you straight here. I've worked in finance in the NHS since 1997 and it is this simple. In 1997 the Labour govt inherited a service that was threadbare from years of Tory mismanagement and underfunding. Labour took over at a point where hospitals would shut down their elective surgery for 6 months when they ran out of funds, causing huge waste.

At the time I remember regular talk radio debates about the "unviability" of "free" healthcare.

Labour funded it and reformed it and put power into patients hands. It was anazing. Yes they funded through private healthcare to increase capacity. The private hospitals earned the same as NHS hospitals for each case but usually cherry picked the easier cases to make it viable. the NHS improved beyond imagination, to the point where an international report showed it to be the best health service in the world. And a relatively cheap one.

Andrew Lansley, who in my opinion should be in jail, was hellbent on an arrogant, misjudged and disastrous reform agenda. It started to destroy the NHS and the Tories have kept it in a complete state of change ever since. They've eroded every single aspect of high quality and ethics from health. They have no ideological support for the NHS and have successfully defended and destroyed it piece by piece.

They've created unbelievable working conditions for all the front line staff, and all the back office staff have to reapply for their own jobs on a one or two year rotation.

This is an eye witness account over the past 26 years.

Show quote history

Thank you for that informative and unattacking reply.

Kendodd · 23/03/2023 08:03

neilyoungismyhero · 22/03/2023 23:10

There are 68 million people in the UK.
10 million in Portugal.
Is it really that hard to understand?

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I can't believe this post.
Do you think every country has a fixed number of ambulances/medics etc? So in a small population you have loads per person and in a big population you have hardly any? You scale services to match the population, how is that not completely obvious to anyone. In fact you would think it would be easier with a big population, more densely populated = closer to services, plus more opportunities to have really specialist expertise. Now I'm sure your next (dumb) point is going to be "but that costs more" . Bigger population = more tax payers to fund the services and more people to staff them. As I said, scaling services to population.

2bazookas · 23/03/2023 08:28

I can't believe the pub was still open and serving customers around a body on the floor.

For her comfort, they should have closed so she could at least have some privacy and quiet . Peeing on a pad in front of people, poor woman.

Silvers11 · 23/03/2023 11:38

ThirdWorld · 22/03/2023 23:37

She's had 2 operations - one for a broken hip and one to do with complications from lying on a cold wooden floor for nearly 12 hours.

She's "comfortable" but in a hospital about 50 miles away, so can't visit. I wanted to send her flowers instead but I believe you can't do that now?

Aw! Poor soul.

No - flowers are not allowed any more as far as I understand it too. Hopefully you can send her a card though. If you phone the hospital I'm sure you'll be able to get her ward number. How very kind of you

Thanks for the update. Was thinking about her

usernamealreadytaken · 23/03/2023 11:40

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 21/03/2023 19:27

You shouldn't move people with certain injuries/suspected injuries as it can make things worse.

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Leaving an individual after a fall, particularly an elderly person, can lead to other complications such as muscle deterioration leading to protein in the blood and in extreme circumstances rhabdomyolosis or other complications.

Dinosaurus123 · 23/03/2023 12:30

Thekormachameleon · 21/03/2023 23:44

@DiDinosaurus123 ringing for updates just prevents call handlers from taking other emergency calls. It won't get you an ambulance any quicker

And lying to get an ambulance is fucking disgusting. Let's hope you never need to call one for a cardiac arrest and it doesn't turn up in time because it has been sent to someone like you who has lied

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What's "fucking disgusting" is my 65 Yr old mum laying on the ice unable to move for 2 hours, she couldn't even talk or respond to us in anyway as she was so cold, her hands and face were turning blue from lying directly on the ice and I would lie all over again if I had to!!

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 23/03/2023 13:16

usernamealreadytaken · 23/03/2023 11:40

Leaving an individual after a fall, particularly an elderly person, can lead to other complications such as muscle deterioration leading to protein in the blood and in extreme circumstances rhabdomyolosis or other complications.

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So basically, an elderly person shouldn’t be moved after a fall in case of further injury, but it’s potentially dangerous to leave them for too long - which takes us back to exactly where we started! The fact that no one should have to wait several hours for medical attention in this situation!

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/03/2023 13:40

usernamealreadytaken · 23/03/2023 11:40

Leaving an individual after a fall, particularly an elderly person, can lead to other complications such as muscle deterioration leading to protein in the blood and in extreme circumstances rhabdomyolosis or other complications.

Show quote history

Yes it can. However, moving them could make things worse or even kill them. That's why prompt ambulances, available hospital beds and qualified HCPs is necessary.

Shame our government doesn't agree.

stopringingme · 23/03/2023 14:18

@ThirdWorld

You have had a hard time on this thread.

When my Dad was in hospital we used to get things delivered by amazon.

If she doesn't have family visiting maybe some toiletries.

You just need the persons name, the ward name or number and the hospital address.

You could ring the hospital to make sure this is allowed.

Maybe have a look on there for something to send her

T1Dmama · 23/03/2023 14:56

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 23/03/2023 00:36

I wonder if there was some way she could’ve been gently and slowly moved… how undignified to leave her there like that. At the least I feel a screen of some sort could’ve given her some privacy.

An awful lot of talk about what should have happened with zero insight into how it could have happened. OP has made it clear the bar area was closed.

And yet she was still on full view to the public. And discussing her with strangers

usernamealreadytaken · 23/03/2023 15:24

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/03/2023 13:40

Yes it can. However, moving them could make things worse or even kill them. That's why prompt ambulances, available hospital beds and qualified HCPs is necessary.

Shame our government doesn't agree.

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How would you suggest any government makes healthcare, education, housing financial or any other provision for 500k people, or not, per year?

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 23/03/2023 15:36

T1Dmama · 23/03/2023 14:56

And yet she was still on full view to the public. And discussing her with strangers

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So you would have found “Some sort of screen”, would you? From where? And found “some way she could be slowly and gently moved”? What way was that? Do you know the difference between a pub and a hospital? A publican and a paramedic?

Skodacool · 23/03/2023 16:05

But you still get twats hinting that I'm a troll, or an anti-government bot

The waiting times for any kind of medical care are an absolute scandal and we should all be screaming about it from the housetops. Not only this, a 38 week wait to see an orthopaedic consultant. It is 99% the fault of this government having relentlessly run down the NHS.

Skodacool · 23/03/2023 16:13

coronafiona · 22/03/2023 06:55

This. The government want us to have to pay for private health. Insurance companies will do everything they can to avoid treating us. We do not want to end up like the USA, it is appalling. We must protect our NHS.

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And the tories will all start having financial interests in medical insurance companies

usernamealreadytaken · 23/03/2023 17:20

Skodacool · 23/03/2023 16:13

And the tories will all start having financial interests in medical insurance companies

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Why does everyone always jump on the pearl clutching "we mustn't turn in to America" whenever healthcare is discussed? Just about every European country has healthcare which is underpinned by a level of insurance, and just about every European country has better healthcare than the UK. No other country in the world has ever tried to replicate the NHS - that kind of indicates it might not actually be the best healthcare model...

Sugarfree23 · 23/03/2023 17:23

@usernamealreadytaken
And what happens to those without insurance?

TheBeautifulLisette · 23/03/2023 17:49

Sugarfree23 · 23/03/2023 17:23

@usernamealreadytaken
And what happens to those without insurance?

I only know about the Netherlands but everyone has/ must have insurance. If you have a low income then you get the equivalent of tax credits to subsidise it. It’s not a perfect system but works pretty well.