To think there should be some kind of national reflection on the pandemic?

[23rdmarch2020]

It’s coming up to three years since the first lockdown. In many ways, it feels an absolute age ago. From personal experience, my life completely changed in the space of a week and so many things happened in my life that never would have because of the pandemic (some good, some bad). For some, it has been an absolute tragedy. In the space of a few weeks we went from being in our normal lives to it being a criminal offence to step outside our homes without a valid excuse. Obviously people are keen to move on but AIBU to think there should be more reflection on the pandemic than there has been?

I agree with this.

It’s not reflection per se. Just an acknowledgment that most of the measures were ineffective, not based on any science and probably made the subsequent waves worse.

The impact on mental health, on businesses, on children’s futures, on those at uni. Those that died alone. The inequality - pubs and garden centres open but children can’t go to school. How women tended to be the ones who had to make the most sacrifices to look after children and home school. Probably whilst the men were playing golf, at the barbers, the pubs and whatever else was open before the schools .

The measures were disproportionate and many people behaved appallingly. However, I’m confident this won’t be swept under the carpet like many want it to be. History will look back and analyse and I think we will, in particular, not look back favourably on how we threw our children under the bus..

Yep - my thoughts exactly.

Most people have moved on. The ones that haven't are the ones jumping up and down asking for reflection. They are usually the ones who were against vaccines and lockdowns who are hugely disappointed they didn't get their “I told you so” moment.

I'm sure it's true that many people know they behaved badly, but I think probably even more are in denial. It's so easy to look back in a way that convinces you you were more in line with how you think now than you were - it's a cognitive bias we nearly all have.

When I think back I naturally think of the people who judged me for letting immediate family see my newborn outside, I think of the people who told me it was wrong, pathetic and selfish of me to even care what my toddler was missing out when PEoplE ArE DyInG, I think of how angry I felt when people went on about how amazing lockdown was and how great it was not being able to see anyone for Christmas and 'maybe we should always live like this'. I think of the fact that I took DS1 out of nursery for the last six weeks of my pregnancy with DS2 largely because I was so affected by people saying that you were a terrible person who didn't care about your child or the staff if you used nursery when you didn't absolutely have to, so I hobbled around miserably and irritably with SPD and a 2.5 year old all day every day. I remember my complete terror in case I had to give birth alone.

But if I dig really deep I can also remember thinking it was really selfish and irresponsible of my elderly neighbours to be going to the shop daily in the first lockdown, I can remember being shocked when a friend said they'd been having people in their house when that wasn't 'allowed' and I can remember feeling judgemental of other nursery parents who didn't wear masks for pick-up (outdoors!). To be clear I never expressed any of that to the people involved, but those thoughts were definitely in my head. I was scared, exhausted, lonely, isolated and spending far too long on the internet. I was also in a deeply unfamiliar situation where we had very imperfect information. But it's really easy to forget I ever felt like that, looking back, and I suspect it is for lots of other people too.

Anti lockdown does not mean anti-vaccine. Two completely separate things. Very simplistic to lump these together…

And many people were supportive of the first lockdown - just that it went on too long and the wrong things were prioritised to open.. and we did not need subsequent lengthy lockdowns. Heaven forbid we can apply some critical thinking to this without being shut down as ‘anti-vax’. I’ve had all 3 vaccines thank you very much.

It’s not about an ‘I told you so’. It’s about accurately assessing what worked and what mistakes were made - not even just in our country but across the world. But don’t worry it is all coming out. This isn’t closed. This will be discussed and analysed for many, many years to come. Our grandchildren’s grandchildren will be writing a critique of this in history lessons in the future. Probably judging with horror what happened (especially to children in Spain!).

Exactly.

@Delatron I completely agree. We need to consider all the trade-offs that were made during the lockdowns, including the medium and long term effects (on education, mental health, etc) which by definition won’t be clear until time passes. We also need to examine the impact the pandemic had on our trust in politicians, media & scientists.

It was impossible even to raise the idea that there were trade-offs at the height of the pandemic. On here you’d immediately get screeched at that you didn’t care that someone’s granny might die, and that you were an uncaring selfish monster. Whereas now hopefully a more measured discussion is possible.

For what it’s worth I think the first lockdown and associated measures was the right thing to do. But then in autumn 2020 when there was more clarity over which groups were at higher risk of death from covid, plus treatment was more developed, the emphasis should have shifted to life getting back to normal for the vast majority of people, who could accurately assess that they were not at serious risk.

What i experienced at Christmas 2020 I got PMed through fb several times by a man id never physically met who asked me if i had spent Christmas with my family and then asked if i was still following the rules,and how we should all follow the rules unlike some. It was fucking creepy. A man PMing a woman he has never physically met late at night to make sure ask if she is still following the rules.

I DID go to my parents that Christmas as im a carer so was "allowed" to but i didnt tell him that The way he went on afterwards about how people should follow the rules told me i made the right decision especially as he was in our local fb group (so he is local) and his posts showed he had put his OWN interpretation on the rules like many on here. I have kept these messages I havent deleted them and i wont be doing so.

Of course it will be analysed. There will be a lot of research. I doubt that the the general conclusion will be that lockdowns and vaccination shouldn't have happened though so don't get too excited.

Oh well, if you doubt it then we probably don't even need to bother. The issue is settled!

I don’t disagree, but my recollection is that the government desperately tried to open the schools but were met with resistance.

I do find it extraordinary looking back. Education is a fundamental human right. We’ve collectively agreed as a society that it should be free and mandatory between the ages of 5 and 18. It’s unbelievable how easily it got whipped away. And anyone who dared express the slightest concern about it on here got their arses handed to them by the Covid police.

As said in pp you are linking two separate things. If someone thinks lockdown was harmful they can still see vaccines as good.

It is the latter that allowed us to break from harsh restrictions after all.

Yes, this is an important point. There are a cohort of people who are either against or on the fence about lockdown who are also pro vaccination. That's just plain fact.

Obviously antilockdown and antivaccine shouldn't go together. However many of those who were against lockdown were also against vaccines which says a lot.

For someone who thinks they shouldn't go together you're not making much effort to separate the two. Also, the use of 'many' is vague and meaningless in this context, so actually it says bugger all.

For the second time can you please stop lumping vaccinations and lockdowns together. You’re not coming across well at all.

I’ve said repeatedly that I fully supported the vaccine program- it was one thing we did very well. I also supported the first lockdown but that it should have ended sooner and that schools should have opened before pubs..

Can you not understand the nuances of these arguments?

I’m not excited at all. I’m just sad actually for those that suffered disproportionately throughout lockdowns and I don’t even include myself in that. My lockdown was fine - I just have empathy!

This will be discussed and analysed probably for the rest of time. Just like the wars, the great flu pandemic. It won’t be brushed under the carpet. Thank goodness for that.

You would think so but from posts here/facebook/youtube those against lockdown were very often against vaccine too.

As I said the two often went together. Look at all the right wing media here and abroad.

Right. But many people who could see the harm that lockdowns were doing were pro-vaccines. So I’m not sure why you keep lumping the two together. Your arguments are vague and make no sense to be honest.

<gets bingo card ready> Have already ticked off one silencing tactic

And the two quite often didn’t go together. So not a very strong argument…

The left / right debate was an issue imo, it became left for lockdown and right supposedly not but they did it anyway.

The response was sadly politicised and the those who lost out from this were the younger generation.

You couldn’t say there are harms here without it becoming ‘far right’. With that society let down Dc.

I think the two very often went together actually.

The memory also plays tricks. Three years ago when we first went into lockdown everyone I know was terrified of getting covid. There was no vaccine and people were randomly getting very sick. I know a healthy person in their late 40s who nearly died in April 2020. It's very easy now to look back and think all was rosy but it was a very worrying time and no-one knew what the outcome would be.

Im anti lockdown but have had the vaccines.

I cant help wondering though what would have happened if some members of the public had done this.

"sort my housing problem out or i wont have the vaccine"

"sort out my UC problem if you want me to have the vaccine" Maybe the fear was ramped up to prevent possible scenarios like this.