“Sleep training”

[Tnib]

First of all Happy Mother’s Day to you all.

I’m the mother of a beautiful 5 month old girl. I really feel like I’ve struggled with parenthood and things only feel slightly better now. I only just feel like I’m actually a Mum now, if that makes any sense.

Baby’s sleep has been poor for almost two months which I think is normal as part of the four month sleep regression but I wanted some help as I just feel like I’m not putting her down for her naps properly. Something I read yesterday made me think she is too drowsy when I put her down to nap. It still takes a little while to put baby down and there is often fussing and sometimes crying even though I’ve been doing this, this way for a few weeks and she generally only naps for 30 minutes or sometimes less. Her night sleep is not great either but I think baby is trying to resettle herself when she wakes.

I wanted to get some help from a sleep consultant and wanted a bit of other help to look after baby as it’s just been us, but DF just doesn’t seem to want to try and get help. We argue so much and I’m sad. I just feel like he wants to keep struggling even though it’s me who has to do most of the work and just feel like I can’t face things some days. I don’t know why he wouldn’t get any help before. I’m resentful and fed up.

I’m not sure if “sleep training” always works but feel I need a guide as I feel a bit lost. DF was critical of me when baby was young and I don’t have much confidence in what I’m doing. I don’t want to do cry it out to the point that baby cries themselves to sleep with no intervention. AIBU to want sleep consultant help? AIBU to feel resentful and fed up? It’s been five months where I’ve kept saying I’m struggling and need help and DF helps a lot more than before.

I’m thinking of going back to work earlier than I anticipated (10.5 months as that’s when nursery place is available, would go back before possibly if there were places) because I just feel like I’m failing and DF won’t do much to change the situation. I have to badger him and be breaking down in tears to elicit change. I feel a lot of emotional labour even though DF now does a lot of practical things as he usually works from home. Really AIBU?

You can’t train a baby to sleep. It’s developmental. They’re supposed to wake frequently at this age. 30 minute naps are also normal for some babies. Just let her sleep when she’s tired and don’t put too much thought into it.
Adjust your life instead of trying to make a baby fit into yours. My baby woke a lot in the night until he was 1, I used to get ready for bed at 7pm most nights so that I could snooze a little before his first wake up which was usually around 11pm.

Have you ever wondered why there are so many of these so called sleep consultants? They’re there to make money. They convince you that your baby waking up is a problem, that you’ve done something wrong and that the way to fix it is to pay them to tell you that you need to put them in a dark room at specified times. You’re not doing anything wrong and your baby isn’t a problem that needs to be fixed. Most people just need to adjust their expectations of what baby’s sleep and the first year of motherhood looks like.

Thank you. I agree a lot of it is developmental. I just struggle getting her to nap full stop; when I go to put her down for a nap there’s fussing or tears even though she is tired. So then I wonder if she’s over tired. I just don’t feel I put her down at the right time…I’m overthinking definitely but is that wrong? I just want to do it right. DF and I went out for a long walk today and she slept for two hours, and she came back and started to roll and seemed to enjoy tummy time more, trying to grab something in a new way on the playmat, probably a coincidence but I want her to sleep enough to develop and of course would love to get a nap or chance to chill also.

DF and I have also had a good chat and feeling more positive.

By “DF” do you mean your partner? I do think it’s unreasonable if he leaves all the work to you and then wants to dictate your strategy/ level of support.

My baby totally refused ever to nap or sleep in a cot. You may have one of those, I’m afraid to tell you. Only way she would nap was on me , or cosleeping with me in my bed. When she was very little she’d also sleep walking in the pram. I did manage to get to the point where she would nap if I lay down with her until she fell asleep and then quietly left. Have you tried that approach?

My understanding of sleep training is that they basically put you on a schedule and tell you to implement some form of “controlled crying”. You don’t really need to pay someone loads of money to do that, you can figure it out yourself . Basically you decide your sleep schedule and then put them down and leave them to cry for intervals (depending on your level of tolerance). The nuclear method (leave them to cry until they fall asleep) is by far the most efficient, but most people find that a bit unpalatable / hard..

Whatever you do, it will get easier soon , I promise x

No you are not being unreasonable at all to want some support with your baby's sleep. Many health visting teams offer free sleep advice to parents, either 1:1 or in a group setting. Alternatively there are some really good books that teach you the basic principles of sleep hygiene and helping children to join their sleep cycles together. I like the "No Cry Sleep Solution ". Its not unreasonable to want your child to gradually become more independent and it's not unreasonable to pay for professional help.

When mine were little they slept a lot in slings while I did normal life thjbgs. Eventually they would sometimes be so fast asleep I could unwrap and wriggle free and get some rest myself.
I am totally anti sleep training personally. They do tend to get into some sort of schedule themselves

Is DF your father, and if so do you need to be listening to him? If it’s your partner or husband then I agree it’s important to have a joined up approach. Just remember though that everyrhing is a phase. If baby won’t sleep for long in the cot but seems to need more naps can they go in a sling or a Moses basket? Do you use an app to track sleep to see if there are naturally patterns? We found that more helpful with DS (4months).

Personally i wouldn't bother before 12-13 months old as the sleep is so up and down before then. Sorry I know it's horrendous when you're not sleeping.

Good nap schedule worked for me - doing everything I can to get them to nap at appropriate intervals ("awake time" between naps increases slightly as they get older) then I found that "sleep begets sleep" was largely true. So I would take them out in the pram to sleep in the afternoon as they wouldn't go in their cots. Good luck. Obviously a lot of it is down to the individual baby too!

Is this your fiancé / baby's father? DF usually means friend or father so it's a bit unclear but I'm assuming it's your partner?

It is quite normal for 5 month old babies to need significant support to sleep, feeding to sleep or using movement like the buggy or a swing or driving in the car is quite common for naps at this age. I have not been able to just put them down in a cot and they drift off to sleep. But don't worry they do get there eventually!

I feel you OP. Luckily I haven't had to use a sleep consultant but I have friends who have and they've worked wonders

I did turn to sleep training when ds was 14 months. It was 2 difficult weeks but we saw improvement every night. I can't imagine a 5 month old responding well to it but I completely get why you are looking for alternatives.

When my babies were a few months old and I'd stopped breastfeeding, as others have posted, i would be ready for bed by 7pm. Dh would take over from me about 4am. Which would give me a good 4 hours solid sleep.

It is absolutely unreasonable to expect a baby of this age to “become more independent”. If the OP had a toddler then I could understand your advice but this is a 5 month old baby we’re talking about. They shouldn’t be working towards being more independent at this point, they need a caregiver that responds to their needs and isn’t concentrating on joining sleep cycles together. You can’t make a baby do that.

I'm sorry that's bollocks. Why give advice when you only have one child and they don't sleep well.

Parenting varies in different stages of your child's life and in that first year it's teaching them how to sleep and eat. If a child is waking that often then you aren't parenting effectively.

There are lots of resources out there, and you can pay someone to do it. But, basically it's leaving them to self-soothe and going in as much as you need to, so that they can learn to settle themselves.

We didn't do it early enough with DS1 and it caused real issues with the other two we learnt our lesson and they slept well from 4 month onwards and still do.

I may only have one child myself but I’m a professional that works with newborns and babies and I’m sick to the back teeth of parents being made to feel less than because their baby is doing what is biologically normal.

Especially in the first 6 months of life a baby is supposed to wake frequently, it’s a protection factor against SIDS. A baby will also wake, usually at least 3-4 hourly for milk feeds at this age and even more so if breastfeeding. A baby waking in the night at five months old absolutely does not mean you aren’t parenting effectively! That is the most “bollocks” thing I have ever heard.

Also to add, from 11 months old, besides during illnesses and teething, my son has slept through the night 7pm-7am so I’m not giving advice based on only having one child that doesn’t sleep well. He achieved sleeping through the night with no sleep training, he did it gradually and when he was developmentally ready to. I didn’t have to “teach” him.

OP, do what you feel you need to do. Motherhood is hard. I’m here to tell you that despite what some may say, your baby is normal, you’re doing nothing wrong and they will gradually start to sleep better.

Thanks everyone for your replies. DF was my fiancé. Not up on my Mumsnet acronyms.

I’m glad to hear people’s helpful stories and it doesn’t sound like my baby is too young so will look to do something soon.

My fiancé says he’s onboard, just hope he will see it through.

Have a great week.

As others have said - parenthood is bloody hard, sleep deprivation is horrific. Everyone does what they need to do. Something that really did help me to make informed decisions was following Lyndsay Hookway and Little Nest Egg on Instagram. They both share a lot of information on biologically normal sleep in infants, but also share practical tips to help you to make changes too. Good luck with it - it isn't easy, but it's great that you and your partner are on the same page now.

I second the recommendation to look up Lyndsay Hookway on instagram.
OP, you’ve mentioned a couple of times about “putting her down for a nap”, which is not wrong if that’s what you want to do. But you can get them to sleep in other ways if that’s not working, maybe you could experiment.
We always used a sling or a carrier for my son’s morning nap. And contrary to those who insist the only way to get babies to sleep is to leave them alone in a silent dark room and that babies who are cuddled to sleep become dependant on contact napping, it was really effective in getting my baby used to sleeping without the need for complete silence. I’d have him in the carrier while I hoovered, walked around the supermarket, chatted on the phone. He’d sleep soundly and I got on with things. Other friends who had used different methods ended up feeling chained to the house for nap times because their baby would only sleep if they were in a silent room with a black out blind.
For other naps and for bedtime we would cuddle to sleep then put him in his cot. No tears, no wondering if they’re overtired or not tired enough because he can’t “self soothe”, just a lovely cuddle with my baby until he fell asleep.
He’s almost two now and for around a year he has been going to sleep for naps and bedtime by himself, in his cot. It happened when he was ready, we didn’t force anything and it made the whole thing less stressful.
If you’re really struggling with sleep deprivation, Lyndsay Hookway has some brilliant recommendations of ways to optimise sleep without the “training” aspect.

Thanks for the info. I will take a look. I take baby out in the buggy but don’t feel comfortable with using the carrier. I must also look at that too and get some advice as there is a sling library I can go to. It was the, snow and rain that made me feel I had to put baby down for naps plus I was knackered from being out and about so much with the buggy. Baby used to nap no problem then she just wouldn’t nap at home.

Anyway thanks for the info.

No problem. Really good idea to make use of the sling library! When I had mine in a carrier it was just post covid so we didn’t have the group type sling libraries you can go to now, just one where you could pick them up to try out at home yourself. If you’re not feeling too confident with slings, the material wrap around ones do take some getting used to, I’d suggest trying a sturdy buckle up type one. They feel really secure and I’m sure after a few tries at home where you can play around and adjust them you’d feel comfortable to wear them outside in no time.
I also used to stick to the rule of if they’re not asleep within 15-20 minutes, forget the nap for now, try again later. Have half an hour to an hour of play time, chatting, looking at books and then try again. I found that really effective, saved the frustration of “why won’t he sleep?!”, as sometimes they’re just not tired enough and no matter how much you think they should be ready for a nap, they often just aren’t. And that’s ok!

Eh my son was like this. In all honesty absolutely nothing worked. If you want to go down the sleep training route you need to wait until she’s older anyway.

Hi Lelophants, I posted this a few months ago and I suppose we did do “sleep training” at some point, but what I realised from this experience now was I was (especially for naps) going in too early and picking baby up and actually baby would sometimes fall back to sleep. Lots of “sleep training” is about routine, which is difficult to get used to but can work. I think I’m sorta in a routine but that is mostly based around baby (her awake windows) and it goes out the window sometimes.

I’m not sure what works or doesn’t work for all babies but my baby generally “sleeps through” but we still get what is considered early wakes sometimes. Things are much improved as she does now sleep fairy well.