To think they have got rid of 15 free hours at 3 for high earners?

Zoe303 · 2023-03-19T07:32:15+00:00

Not really an AIBU but just want to know if anyone has seen clear guidance! My DS will be 3 in October, and my partner earns a little over £100k. A few months ago when planning for a new mortgage we were looking at the free childcare entitlement for 3 year olds and saw that while we weren’t eligible for 30 free hours when he turns 3, we would instead get 15 - great and fair enough. Now since the new announcements about the changes to free entitlement it seems like that 15 is gone completely? On this gov page they don’t reference it anymore. https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare Can anyone tell me - have they got rid of the 15 hours for over 100k and it’s now all or nothing? Or am I going mad and the 15 for high earners never existed in the first place? Or is it still the case that high earners get 15 for three year olds? (and would get 15 from 9 months with the new system? Thanks in advance for anyone who can help!! We’re now not sure if we can afford a second child before the first one starts school as paying for them both to have full time childcare would be a stretch on our finances!

PatriciaHolm · 19/03/2023 07:35

Still exists - www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-and-education-for-2-to-4-year-olds?step-by-step-nav=f237ec8e-e82c-4ffa-8fba-2a88a739783b

Totalwasteofpaper · 19/03/2023 07:38

your dh should just pay 5k or whatever is needed to take him under 100k threshold into a pension and claim the 30 hours

Mutabiliss · 19/03/2023 07:45

Everyone gets the 15 hours, it's to prepare them for school.

But it's also quite normal to wait for one child to be out of expensive childcare before having another.

Original poster

Zoe303 · 19/03/2023 07:48

Thank you everyone!! Do you know whether the 15 hours will also apply to children from 9 months with the new system, or will it still just start at 3?

OP posts:

RobinRobinMouse · 19/03/2023 07:57

I wouldn't base my finances on this yet, it is a Tory promise to try and win votes for the next election and may or may not actually happen.

Curiosity101 · 19/03/2023 08:02

As someone else said, suggest your DH puts whatever extra is required into his pension as salary sacrifice. That's what we're doing whilst the kids are little.

Lapland123 · 19/03/2023 08:13

I’d be cautious about all this. Nurseries were not funded adequately by the government for this previously so that may continue. Our nursery had our 15 ‘free’ hours but when we needed a day of childcare it worked out almost the same as before it was ‘free’! They added on costs for everything. Literally about £2 less than the previous cost! Of course that could have been the nursery boosting its profiteering also. My child was only there for an extra term as we were moving area, so I wasn’t going to argue about it

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:22

You were looking on the wrong page OP. That’s why you couldn’t find it.

Re the 15 hours from 9 months, it’s unclear but I believe that’s what the budget provides.

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:24

He earns over £100K a year - plus whatever you earn, as if you need childcare you’re presumably working too? - and yet you can’t afford one year of double nursery fees.

Aaaaaaaah, this is one of my favourite MN AIBU tropes - where £100K isn’t really that much you know 🤣🤣🤣

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:24

Lapland123 · 19/03/2023 08:13

I’d be cautious about all this. Nurseries were not funded adequately by the government for this previously so that may continue. Our nursery had our 15 ‘free’ hours but when we needed a day of childcare it worked out almost the same as before it was ‘free’! They added on costs for everything. Literally about £2 less than the previous cost! Of course that could have been the nursery boosting its profiteering also. My child was only there for an extra term as we were moving area, so I wasn’t going to argue about it

This. On the face of it, it sounds great, but in reality, nurseries will struggle as the government funding is minimal, meaning more nurseries will close and the cost of privately funded hours will likely increase.

As most working parents put their children into nursery for more than 15/30 hours a week term time only, I’m not sure how much they will actually benefit from this.

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:25

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:24

He earns over £100K a year - plus whatever you earn, as if you need childcare you’re presumably working too? - and yet you can’t afford one year of double nursery fees.

Aaaaaaaah, this is one of my favourite MN AIBU tropes - where £100K isn’t really that much you know 🤣🤣🤣

Well when you’re looking at £4,000 a month for two children, and a salary a little over £100k is roughly £5,500, then yeah it is a struggle.

Do the maths before you post unhelpful and jealous comments.

Treacletoots · 19/03/2023 08:28

I'm still waiting for government to catch up to the fact that most working parents don't just work term time..

Readtopop · 19/03/2023 08:31

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:24

He earns over £100K a year - plus whatever you earn, as if you need childcare you’re presumably working too? - and yet you can’t afford one year of double nursery fees.

Aaaaaaaah, this is one of my favourite MN AIBU tropes - where £100K isn’t really that much you know 🤣🤣🤣

Nasty ,
spiteful and narrow minded .
Where I am , it costs £1, 600 a month for full time nursery . This is huge. Regardless if you earn £100k which is for us £5,700k a month .

The amount of tax paid on £100k bloody funds so many people free hours !

It like me saying - why should people who work part time (16hours) get 30 free hours so they can sit on their arse ???

@Testina - grow up !

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:35

@Glitteratitar I’m not jealous. I’m just saying it’s always amusing when you see the “£100K isn’t that much” thing pop up on MN.

£4K / £5.5K isn’t sustainable as a permanent expense. It’s for ONE YEAR. So you save for it, and suck up a tight year.

And there’s potentially a whole second salary here or they wouldn’t need childcare.

The state should never have been funding 15 hours for people on over £100K in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

Curiosity101 · 19/03/2023 08:39

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:24

This. On the face of it, it sounds great, but in reality, nurseries will struggle as the government funding is minimal, meaning more nurseries will close and the cost of privately funded hours will likely increase.

As most working parents put their children into nursery for more than 15/30 hours a week term time only, I’m not sure how much they will actually benefit from this.

Show quote history

It'll vary based on people's bill in the first place. But on ours (£44 per day 5 days a week) 30 free hours works out as roughly a 30% drop, similar to the 'tax free' childcare. So our childcare bill is about 50% of what it would be without those 2 schemes.

We pay our childminder a full top up though. She just offsets the bill by the amount of funding she gets through. I think officially she isn't allowed to do that, but it's ridiculous that they fund way below the hourly rate and then expect the providers to survive.

Although someone quoted £4k per month for 2 children full time, which is £2k per child. Ours is £1k per month per child before any discounts. So there is clearly huge variation across the country. £44 per day full time vs £88 per day full time in the example.

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:39

“The amount of tax paid on £100k bloody funds so many people free hours !”

I’m only on £85K myself, but it does make me a net contributor also paying towards other people’s free hours.

I think that higher earners (I include myself, though a lot of MN will tell me I’m middle income and some will clutch pearls at how I can possibly manage 😉) have more potential to save and plan for the “2 at nursery” short crossover, and to rebuild savings after.

Biggiee · 19/03/2023 08:41

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:35

@Glitteratitar I’m not jealous. I’m just saying it’s always amusing when you see the “£100K isn’t that much” thing pop up on MN.

£4K / £5.5K isn’t sustainable as a permanent expense. It’s for ONE YEAR. So you save for it, and suck up a tight year.

And there’s potentially a whole second salary here or they wouldn’t need childcare.

The state should never have been funding 15 hours for people on over £100K in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

You do know where state funding comes from right?

TheScreams · 19/03/2023 08:46

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:24

He earns over £100K a year - plus whatever you earn, as if you need childcare you’re presumably working too? - and yet you can’t afford one year of double nursery fees.

Aaaaaaaah, this is one of my favourite MN AIBU tropes - where £100K isn’t really that much you know 🤣🤣🤣

High earners are allowed to ask questions too 🙄

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:47

Curiosity101 · 19/03/2023 08:39

It'll vary based on people's bill in the first place. But on ours (£44 per day 5 days a week) 30 free hours works out as roughly a 30% drop, similar to the 'tax free' childcare. So our childcare bill is about 50% of what it would be without those 2 schemes.

We pay our childminder a full top up though. She just offsets the bill by the amount of funding she gets through. I think officially she isn't allowed to do that, but it's ridiculous that they fund way below the hourly rate and then expect the providers to survive.

Although someone quoted £4k per month for 2 children full time, which is £2k per child. Ours is £1k per month per child before any discounts. So there is clearly huge variation across the country. £44 per day full time vs £88 per day full time in the example.

Show quote history

The benefits will vary across the country as you say. For us, our nursery and all nurseries around us range from £99 to £109 a day. So the saving is minimal, though I am still very much grateful.

TheScreams · 19/03/2023 08:47

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:35

@Glitteratitar I’m not jealous. I’m just saying it’s always amusing when you see the “£100K isn’t that much” thing pop up on MN.

£4K / £5.5K isn’t sustainable as a permanent expense. It’s for ONE YEAR. So you save for it, and suck up a tight year.

And there’s potentially a whole second salary here or they wouldn’t need childcare.

The state should never have been funding 15 hours for people on over £100K in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

Do you oppose childcare funding for people who don’t work at all then? Seeing as they don’t need it?

BernadetteIsMySister · 19/03/2023 08:49

It's not "15 hours for high earners' it's universal funding meaning all children aged 3 and 4 get it, even those whose parents do not work.

Glitteratitar · 19/03/2023 08:50

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:35

@Glitteratitar I’m not jealous. I’m just saying it’s always amusing when you see the “£100K isn’t that much” thing pop up on MN.

£4K / £5.5K isn’t sustainable as a permanent expense. It’s for ONE YEAR. So you save for it, and suck up a tight year.

And there’s potentially a whole second salary here or they wouldn’t need childcare.

The state should never have been funding 15 hours for people on over £100K in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

With your logic, I guess you would also say the state shouldn’t be finding hours for children at 2 when the parent doesn’t work…or is your criticism limited to higher earners who are putting more into the system than taking out?

Testina · 19/03/2023 08:50

“Do you oppose childcare funding for people who don’t work at all then? Seeing as they don’t need it?”

@TheScreams no. The policy reasons behind that - improving education and life chances of the recipients, as with the old 30 hours at age 2 instead of 3 in sone areas of deprivation - are completely different. It’s not simply about creating economically active parents. The parents don’t need it but the children do.

BungleandGeorge · 19/03/2023 08:50

The funding for 3/4 year olds isn’t free childcare it’s for early years education and I think is paid for by dept for education. I think that’s why you’re not seeing it on the page you looked at.

how is a nursery that charges £100 a day going to provide any free hours on government funding! For 4K a month I’d look for a nanny

Chickenly · 19/03/2023 08:51

The ignorance of some people is baffling. Wait until they find out that high earners can also send their children to state schools and use the NHS.