Help with 12 year old and violence

[Totallysinking]

Posting here for traffic and I'll try and be brief.

Dd 12 has some low level mental health issues, mainly depressive tendencies. Home work is a real trigger for her. Today she was asked to do homework that was hard for her. Both parents offered help and support. Her refusal to do it resulted in her being asked to hand over her phone as she kept surfing.

The response to this was "you know I could stab you right now don't you. Just get a knife and stab you through the heart". At this point I put my coat on and left her with her father - who she would never speak to like that.

I'm now in a carpark dreading returning home. I have absolutely no idea how to handle this. Her phone is gone for a week, but I'm just so gutted that she could even think this let alone say it.

Any guidance or handholding, please.......

Wow I'm so sorry, that's awful. I can only comment what I would do and I would let my child know that if they ever made threats like that again, I would be contacting the police.

Is your dd getting any help for their mental health?

Thank you. She had seen a therapist and has a Councillor available at school. I'm just so angry and disappointed that a child who has a guilded life could be so unkind

Hi OP so sorry you're going through this right now but I've been through similar so hopefully the strategies I've picked up maybe helpful.
Is it possible your daughter has ADHD?
It's often missed with girls as they're very good at masking particularly at school but then come home and explode! They show you all the nasty behaviour because they feel safe with you and put you through hell.
If it is ADHD a conventional approach to parenting will not work: it's basically like taking a cat to a puppy class and trying to make it sit, while all the puppies sit when told, your cat will more likely bite and scratch you.
Likewise telling a child with ADHD to do their homework or else no phone will not motivate them and more likely result in explosive challenging behaviour. The only thing that will work is bribery.
It may feel counterintuitive at first but if you can remain calm and upbeat and suggest perhaps giving her a pound for each question answered. If she says she'd rather die than do it then again be very calm that's fine but if she changes her mind the offer still stands.
It's all about finding the right motivation but also reducing the stress.
And I know it's so so hard because it's so stressful as a parent but it's so important for you to be calm. Also the compulsive surfing on her phone is probably her way of staying calm, a way to regulate her emotions so when you removed that I'm sure that's why she was so angry with you. All that stress built up and you essentially took the lid off.
Please don't blame yourself but also don't be afraid of your daughter she's probably scared of losing you, even though I doubt she'd admit it. I would suggest going home with something nice to keep the peace and see if you can have a nice evening together without the homework. Do something you both like doing together and maybe try again tomorrow...
I might have this wrong but 12 is still so young and she's still your little girl, I believe this is a cry for help. She isn't coping, she's really stressed and she needs you to be her mum not her teacher. It's so unfair the pressure that school put on kids and parents so if the homework is too hard then the school are getting it wrong, not you and not your daughter

Following

Mine has sen and I often get 'I'm going to slit your throat' when in a rage. Then usually huge amounts of tears when we discuss how awful language was later

What other things have gone on? Have you looked into ADHD / autism? I doubt the police will help either, IME they just want parents to contact CAMHS. They only came out to me when DD ran off.
The one thing that did eventually swing things for me was a non violent resistance course. It basically tells you to let go of the standard parenting techniques you've been killing yourself to do for years to no avail and to see things differently.
FWIW my 14yo DD hurt me for years but she hasn't injured me in a year now. I think we may have finally turned a corner.

What are the other parenting techniques please?
When you say see things differently what do you mean?

purp we had to sort behaviours into red / Amber/ green "baskets" and decide which to ignore and one or two to deal with. So things that would usually be deal with (door slamming, throwing an item, ripping things up etc) needed to be ignored so the the horrific behaviour could be dealt with. Had to write a nice letter to our kids, learn to keep calmer than ever before when they kicking off. Things I would tell my eldest off for are now ignored in my youngest.

Why did she have to do the homework when you asked her to? Don't take her phone away for a week for not doing homework she finds hard.

Also how is her life 'gilded'?

She needs her phone taken away for the disgraceful threats she made.
She does not speak to her Father like that so why say it to the Mother.

This sounds incredibly helpful. Thank you. I'll look into this

She is the only child, a wealthy family with all the privilege that offers. She is able to do what she wants, with undivided attention. There are few demands on her.

If my child spoke to me like that there would be no phone.
Your child needs to learn to respect and that poor behaviour has consequences.
Nor would I be paying her to do her homework.

Does she have a diagnosed mental health issue? (Having money or a seemingly “easy” life doesn’t make you immune to suffering with poor mental health. It’s an illness.)
She is saying she’s furious. Ok in a bloody horrible way but she’s clearly struggling to express herself. This homework was clearly stressful and being forced to do it made her react in this way.
I completely understand you were upset. BUT ideally you should have stayed around and modelled how to deal with your emotions with words.
I would avoid forcing her to do work she feels she can’t do. Get staff at school to help her. Try and avoid pushing her into situations where she is likely to explode. I know that is easier said than done but she’s communicating a level of distress here.
So sorry you’re facing this.

I would also question why both of you are doing her homework with her. Too much? Put a note in her planner or speak to her teacher if she is struggling.
And if she refuses to do it, let her. Again hopefully she might learn that that also has consequences.

Because she feel safer and more secure with her mum. OP you can't take anything kids say personally, it's not fair on them or on you to do so. It does sound like there could be something more going on here SEN wise, she's not lashing out because she's in a good, positive place and punishing her is only going to push her away further and alienate her more. Of course talk about how sad it made you feel and how you have the right to feel safe in your home and how threatening people with violence is never ok. That's what she needs, not punishing IMO. She needs to feel you're on her side, that you're strong and in control of your emotions when she can't control hers.

If you mean a gilded life where she has a lot of money spent on her, that's not what she needs right now.

What sort of things is she watching? Are you monitoring her use of YouTube/TikTok etc. Netflix?

the reason I say that is because she will be getting this language from somewhere and is using it for shock value - it doesn’t necessarily mean she actually wants to do those things - and it’s important to hold that in your mind when you react.

So I would remove social media, remove YouTube and monitor what she’s watching.

And calmly talk to her about her language, what she means and how it feels to hear that. Remind her that you do still love her, you just do not find her behaviour is acceptable.

She needs something from you that you're not giving. You say that she is able to do what she wants, with undivided attention, she's just found something that takes that attention away... Maybe she needs space. What does she say she wants when you ask?

So feeling safe and secure with her Mum excuses the threats she made. I don't think so.
My children, who are adults now would have had no phone until they they learnt that making threats like that to me gets them nowhere and they would soon learn I would not tolerate it.

Personally I don't believe that children don't threaten to stab their parents through their heart because they're worried their phone will be taken from them. I think that actually it's very unusual for children to make those kind of threats and that's why I think it's a cry for help.
I know it's instinctive sometimes to punish behaviour we don't like but if OP's daughter has ADHD/ASD then she wont be able to regulate her emotions like an NT child can and when overwhelmed all consequences go out the window.

Sorry you're getting a bashing on here OP.
You've done nothing wrong, you're just trying to get your girl to do her homework which for most parents would be nothing more than a battle of wills, the fact that things escalated so quickly makes me think this is an ND issue.

If you can OP I would seek a GP referral for CAMHS. The waiting list is incredibly long so if you can afford it I would also seek a private assessment for both ADHD and ASD. Also look out for someone who recognises girls masking because sadly they often get missed because they present so differently to boys.

I wish you all the best

@Totallysinking

this all sounds very hard for you.

Im an adoptive parent and have had to find many different approaches to managing my son’s behaviour.

the thing that leaps out to me here is that you say she has mental health issues and that homework is triggering.

My son did little or no homework in primary and very little in his first two years at secondary. I met with the school, his TA and Senco and told them what happened at home when homework was attempted. I was clear with them that his mental health and our family relationship was more important than homework at that point. Fortunately school was very supportive. Its not that he do no homework at all but as soon as I saw the anxiety I removed the homework. We worked on the other issues and by the time he got to GCSE time he could just about cope with it - he still did the bare minimum though.

This isnt meant as a criticism, as parents we are told that the homework is important. But kids today are put under so much pressure.

You know it triggers her - You pushed, because traditional parenting tells you homework is important, and the situation escalated. Homework really isnt worth it. Taking her phone will achieve nothing.

My advice is to stop doing and pushing the things which trigger her and get on top of the mental health issues.

Personally I think that therapy is not that helpful - boundaries are the most helpful. She has crossed a line and absolutely NEEDS to know what she can not cross it again. Ever.

Whether she has ‘underlying’ sen or not the action is the same - you never ever threaten someone with violence and you never ever be violent.

How you enforce this is variable. But for a start, at age 12 being told firmly by both you and DH that what she said is completely and utterly unacceptable is the first step. She must be told in a way that is united by both of you, and which is strong in that you both really mean it. She must

• apologise unreservedly and wholeheartedly to you
• promise to never ever say that again.

Imagine if she said that to another kid at school?

So I’d ignore the ‘faffing about’ by which I mean - therapy, looking for ADHD etc. Whilst those things might be something to look into, they are not going to go near helping with the issue at hand. No ADHD medication, therapy or diagnosis is going to stop a child threatening to put a knife in your heart - YOU are the only who has to stop that and also your DH.

Hi OP, I haven't rtft but wanted to offer some solidarity. My 11 year old son has asd, and when he gets overwhelmed he always says he wants to kill himself. He never would, and doesn't understand the pain it causes us when he says it, but we've learned he says it in the heat of the moment when things have gone too far for him to regulate himself.

do you think I'm these moments she means it? I think this might be a key factor, and has she ever expressed herself like this before? We recently changed my sons school and had to tell them when he says so and such, he's On the verge of major meltdown, when he says this he's in the meltdown and all you can do is wait and make sure he's safe.

could this be similar to your daughter? I never want to say, could your child have this or that condition, but it might be worth researching things for yourself, especially concerning girls, who are fantastic at masking neurological conditions.I think you did the right thing by leaving, I wouldn't try and get into an argument with my son when he's so worked up, he wouldn't even remember what was said.

consequences come after for us. We de-escalate situations by talking very calmy, and firmly, make sure ds is safe and wait til the next day to talk and come to compromises that the school agree with.
I hope you're all ok 💐

Thank you all. The evening has been calm and she is aware her behaviour was not appropriate. I'll be following some of the advice above going forward