Dogs and joggers

[TootsAtOwls]

I'm prepared to be told IABU on this but interested to know what others think...

I have a rescue dog who is mostly fine, always friendly if he meets people in the house etc. However he does sometimes bark at people he doesn't like the look of when we pass them on the street (tall men, people wearing neon colours etc). I am actively working on this with positive reinforcement (I get the treats out before we pass people so he learns that other people are a good thing) and most days pass without incident.

However, I am having trouble with (male) runners. They come out of nowhere, running around corners and hurtling past at full speed. I often don't have time to get the treat into the dog's mouth or he's already too distracted by the runner to take it. So he barks, and lunges (I know he means it in a playful way, but they don't!) They always seem to look back and give me a dirty look as i call out "Sorry!"

But I can't help thinking, if I was running past a dog, I'd either cross the road to avoid them or if that's impossible (say on a canal path) I would bloody well slow down! I get that they don't want to keep interrupting their run with bouts of walking. Bit am I so unreasonable to think that you don't run right past a dog who's looking intently at you (as opposed to a dog showing no interest)? Surely they must see it's going to get them barked at?

YANBU. It's not even about dogs, it is rude and intimidating to run at or past people in close proximity.

I don’t know. I have a nervous rescue dog, I’m also a runner.

With my nervous dog I take her out at quieter times. For example when it was half term a few weeks back I changed my walk to a quieter area.

If a runner isn’t a dog person they probably don’t realise that your dog is nervous and I wouldn’t expect others to adapt their behaviour around me because I have a nervous dog. They probably don’t even realise they’re impacting your dog.

I'm a runner, not a dog owner.

Surely it just comes down to both the runner and the walker just having a bit of consideration? If I see that I'm coming up on someone with a dog and they haven't seen me, I'll slow down and perhaps shout out. Yes, it's all very well saying "well, the dog should be under control" but I don't know for a fact they are and even if they are it's a dick move to startle people/animals for the sake of slowing down/walking for a couple of steps.

Yes, dog owners on shared paths should have animals under control but equally other users of the path have a responsibility to try to not give the animal a reason to react.

Jumping on a bad owner because they’re hurting their dog and bragging about it isn’t something I’ll apologise for. Dogs deserve better than smug owners harming them because they want to make a statement. No one criticised her for having a badly behaved dog, she was criticised for actively encouraging her dog to be in a poor state of mind resulting in bad behaviour. She was choosing to hurt her dog because she was too ignorant to look after her dog properly, despite loving it. It’s why we need better training and restrictions for owners - it’s not fair that dogs suffer because their owners (who love them) don’t know how to look after them.

”Rescuing” a dog with an unknown history with little to no temperament checks and a patchy medical record is not better than properly researching a reputable breeder and buying a well bred, well socialised dog. It’s easier. Do not confuse the two.

I’m sorry, did you not actually read what I said to the OP. Read it again and apologise when you have because I was very, very, very clear on my message to OP.

Right…. And of course runners care more about their health and fitness than 2 seconds of a random dog walker’s day.
So that’s a great solution then.

Expecting runners to slow down or cross the rd
Mia the equivalent of a runner expecting u to control your dog

I’m a runner and I wouldn’t slow down or cross the rd
you need to control your dog if you can’t then don’t put it in that situation

I'm a dog owner, and a path I use by a river, has a sign indicating that the path is shared by runners, dog owners, cyclists and pedestrians and to be considerate of each other. I always move to the side to let people pass or if people move for me thank them, I don't always get a thank you when I move though.

I’m a runner…& a dog owner so I see it from both sides. If I’m running up behind someone with a dog, I call out to let them know I’m
coming. This gives them time to rein them in/move to the side/get the dogs attention.
If I’m running towards someone & they can clearly see me coming, I expect the courtesy of them getting the dog to heel/having them distracted if they are a reactive dog.
I do tend to run on the road if I come across dog walkers if it’s safe.
Courtesy works both ways. Some dogs are reactive and need to be kept close to you at all times. One of my dogs is so reactive that I’m constantly checking behind me for runners/cyclists and only walk them in open spaces with enough room for someone to get past us. They are on a short leash at all times.

Keep up with the training OP but take ownership of situations when you’re out with your dog.

I'm a dog lover and a runner and sorry OP, YABU.

I don't feel the need to cross the road or stop running when I see a dog because 99% of dogs I encounter ignore me, or if they acknowledge me it's not with a sudden lunge, they just trot up and hope for a pat. I love encountering dogs when I run, it distracts me from the physical struggle!

Very occasionally there will be a dog that barks and lunges and - even as a dog lover who rationally knows I'm probably not going to be attacked - it's just a nasty shock, a bit disturbing and puts me at risk of injury (I once slipped to get out of the way of a barking dog and was lucky I didn't twist my ankle). Yes, I have glared at dog owners in these scenarios.

Training your dog to be OK with runners should be a top priority and while it sounds as though you're doing this, in the meantime the dog can't be off-lead, and if the dog is on lead it's your responsibility to control it so that it can't lunge. Like I said, the vast majority of dogs I encounter are well-trained enough that I don't have to worry about getting lunged at, so I'm not sure why you think runners should inconvenience themselves just in case there's a badly-trained exception.

Criticising runners for "hurtling at full speed" is weird as well. Yes, runners move fast. The clue is in the name. Ideally runners pay attention to who else is sharing their space but ime we're not the ones failing to do this, usually.

These types of posts are so divisive. Honestly OP not sure what you were hoping to achieve titling it "dogs and joggers" was bound to attract the haters on either side.
I understand you are doing what you can but you can't be upset people get annoyed when your dog lunges at them.
I do try to give warning and space when I'm running near people, including dogs and owners.
Aren't there special coloured leads for reactive or nervous dogs? I do try to look out for these and prepare to be more understanding.

Some places are narrow with little space to give when you’re running past someone. It’s not rude… it’s life! If you find it intimidating then that’s your issue… not the runners 🙄
I get fed up with groups of walkers spread across the path or dog walkers with dogs on those bloody extendable leads so they are on one side of the path & the dog is on the other! I’m sick of hurdling dog leads 🙄🙄🙄
But I get that we have to share the space we have and just crack on!

gannett - Runners have responsibility too. I have met some really rude runners in my time. If you are running up behind someone in a narrow path you absolutely should let them know you're there. I was walking on a narrow path with a friend and a male runner who we had no idea was behind us ran through in the gap between us, never said excuse me or anything and just kept running.

No I don't think people should adapt their lawful business to accommodate you and your dog. If I was a runner/walker I'd probably id give you enough space to pass without being too close. I'd consider the dog an extension of you and not expect it to be alliwed/able to come closer to me. Id be ever so slightly irritated if your dog barked. I'd be very irritated if it lunged......at you!
You've identified a concern and are making efforts to address this - excellent, but if this is happening more than rarely (assuming it is if you're prompted to post) you need to reconsider where you take your dog if you can't guarantee you can control it.

YANBU. I have skin in this game as I'm a runner and I run with my dog!

Dogs eyes have evolved to detect and respond fast to movement, rather than objects and landscapes which is what human eyes have evolved for (because we walk upright and we forage where dogs hunt moving animals). If someone runs suddenly very close behind and past them, they will of course react. No matter how well trained they are. They can't be trained out of it in the same way we can't be trained out of our startle reflex or knee jerk reflex.

TBH the vast majority of runners / dog owners I encounter on my daily run are reasonable and we know each other by sight so we know how our dogs are likely to respond (my dog is the sworn enemy of a local german shepherd so when we humans see each other, we quickly pop our dogs on their leads).

I just think it comes down to awareness of one's surroundings and a bit of give and take. We're all sharing a space as members of a society of course. Unfortunately some runners are so self-satisfied by the fact that they can put one foot in front of another at pace, that they expect to be treated with the utmost deference. Ignore 'em.

You wouldn’t dream of it …but it isn’t you, it’s probably someone who never has had a dog, or at least a dog that’s reactive, someone whose listening to music or a podcast and not even fully taking notice of a dog coming into range, becuase…why should they?
bluntly, saying you know your dog is friendly but here’s the reason it lunges is complete blowing in wind. It’s either reactive or not. No dog should ever be allowed to lunge. Full stop. You are choosing to keep this dog, the bloke is just minding his own business. You allowing it to lunge and then apologising is just virtue signalling. Get your dog trained so you don’t have to have advanced warning to get a bribe/treat ready. Until that point you need to walk your dog in places where there is room to pull it well aside and see cyclist or runners from a long way off. If you couldn’t see round corner why didn’t YOU cross the road and ensure you had forward visisiblty given you know your dog does this

As a runner and dog owner I agree with this.

People shouldn't have to stop using the footpaths in a reasonable way just because someone has a reactive dog.

If I'm walking my dogs or running I expect that there's likely to be other dogs, runners of different speeds, children on scooters and bikes, adult cyclists on shared use paths, mobility scooters, other dogs of different temperaments. I'd not expect them to slow down, move or cross over the road several times for me as a dog owner or as a runner to be honest. Why should they if they're just reasonably using a path?

I find people with reactive dogs often seem to think the whole world should be mind readers, usually when they've got their reactive dog is in a space where they're highly likely to come into contact with general life. They're often quick to say "but my dog is reactive, people shouldn't do... Because my dog is reactive... My reactive dog is friendly but when they bark/lunge/snap at members of the general public it's because the member of the public didn't adequately prioritise my reactive dog"

Between the heavy breathing and the pounding of our feet on the path, I find it baffling when people say a runner came up behind them without warning. It's not exactly a silent form of exercise. When I walk on paths, I always hear a runner behind me way before they get to me (unless I'm wearing headphones, in which case I walk to one side). And as a pedestrian on a public path you should always be aware that someone might be coming up behind you.

A lot of pedestrians definitely don't seem aware of anything around them though...

gannett - You'd be surprised how quiet some runners can be, if you're a heavy breather perhaps you're not as fit as you think!

If you were walking 2 abreast and there's a gap between you I think that's perfectly acceptable. I'd imagine shouting 'excuse me' would have sounded like he he was ordering you to move. In that situation I might possibly? raise my arm as l left you to indicate 'Cheers mate/thank you'

Bloody hell

I run AND have a reactive rescue, and gently YABU. He is a pain in the arse but with the exception of people with dogs with no recall off lead I don’t think it’s reasonable of me to expect people to alter their behaviour because of my dog.

Get your dog trained so you don’t have to have advanced warning to get a bribe/treat ready.

Giving treats IS the training. How can I train the dog without training him...?

you need to walk your dog in places where there is room to pull it well aside and see cyclist or runners from a long way off. If you couldn’t see round corner why didn’t YOU cross the road and ensure you had forward visisiblty given you know your dog does this

I do try to do this, but other than walking down the middle of the road, I can't 100% avoid going around corners.

JudgeRudy - Of course it was rude, you don't run in between two people, I have had people on bikes either say loudly, bike coming through or ring their bell which I don't mind and will move to let them pass but I find some runners think that they have more right to be there.

is there a running club or dog school where you expose the dog to some runners?
my running club sometimes has sessions with a dog rehoming shelter as here (in forrin) dogs from shelters have to pass a test before they are rehomed.

This is a really good idea, thank you