Why do people live in London?

[Waahaawoowoo]

This thread is inspired by a thread where people where explaining how a £100k salary doesn't go far in London. Examples were given of mortgages costing £25k pa. (This is my salary). Childcare bills for 2 kids costing £40k. Our joint salary is £55k pa.

I live in NE Wales. Our house costs us £12k pa for a 3 bedroom semi. Wraparound Childcare used to cost a maximum of £12k pa. But we no longer pay due to age of kids and me WFH. I cannot get my head around DH and I being significantly better off than a couple who earn double what we do.

The logical answer to me would be to move from London. So why do people stay? Is it family? The type of work you do? I'm curious more than anything about what keeps people there when they could possibly have a better standard of living elsewhere.

@BigusBumus1 That sounds like a your marriage problem rather than a London problem though

I'm going to move up there for a year and immerse myself in it.

This is a great idea. A colleague did similar - they lived in Zone 6 worked in Zone 1. Rented a place in walking distance from the office for 6 months.

I would never be able to get a job like the one I have outside London - one where what I do has national impact. That’s why we came here but we’re now staying despite hybrid working because the children are at outstanding state schools where they have fantastic opportunities they wouldn’t get in schools outside London. I think people forget that people get paid significantly more in London, we’re on a joint income of more than £110k and because we’ve been on the housing ladder a while our mortgage is £15k pa. No childcare costs.

we’ll probably move out at some point when the children leave home and will have a big wedge of equity to buy a fantastic house, hopefully. That’s also a good reason to stay though not the be all and end all - as others have said we love the diversity and multiculturalism, and being able to just up and go to an exhibition, play, museum, world-class restaurant at the drop of a hat without having to plan it months in advance and pay for transport, hotel, etc

Yes, I have three children 3, 8 & 13.
I get the train to work. Nursery and school are both in walking distance from our house as are the majority of their clubs.
Play dates- the catchments are so small in London that everyone lives pretty close.
I feel like this is one of the great things about London, there is always so much on locally.
Football and rugby can be a little harder as matches can be further away. But there is always car hire clubs and uber.

It's like everything really, isn't it? I don't live in the UK - I'm in Dublin but originally from another part of Ireland. I suppose I'd always imagined 'one day' moving out of Dublin but not sure where. Recently I realised that actually, I like living here (before I assumed it was based on my DC, work etc) and will aim to stay (practically may not be possible later in life, single parent).

I spend time each summer in West Cork and it's beautiful - sea, views, utterly different pace. And I always have a disappointed lurch as I drive back into my very ordinary suburb.

But equally I know I couldn't live so remotely and away from so many cultural & practical things I enjoy (getting a train or bus to work or city centre - not possible in so much of the rest of Ireland).

And possibly like London, Dublin is very friendly in a way smaller areas aren't. You're not an outsider, you can have your own community whether it's small daily encounters like getting your coffee. That's something that tends to be the case in large / capital cities.

I have always loved London, tho I haven't lived there. So bustling, so much to do (obviously easy to say as someone who has only visited / gone on work trips!)

That sounds wonderful!

Because it has world leading art, culture, food and professional opportunities.

And the rest of the UK is a cultural and foodie desert?
London has more art, culture, food and professional opportunities. It isn't the only city in the UK that has these.

This argument gets trotted out on every London thread by xenophobic and ignorant Londoncentric posters of which there are plenty on this thread.

And how many Londoners actually spend every weekend visiting art galleries and museums, going to the opera/ballet and eating in michelin starred restaurants?

There is more opportunity to do these things in London, not no opportunity to do these things outside of London. And there are interesting people everywhere.

Because most other places in the UK are boring AF compared to London.

Anyone who thinks this must be pretty boring and lacking in imagination.

Because its diverse ,multi -cultural and outside of London isn't

This is so untrue it's ridiculous.

I absolutely understand the appeal of London and its uniqueness in the UK, but I do find some of the replies here amusing too. As though the only options available are London or a tiny, racist, suburban outpost with no cultural landmarks where everything stops at 4pm and the people are all boring as fuck.

Well said. I totally agree.

I have been to Wales twice. It was twice too much. Scenery was nice but oh my - the inward looking attitude was awful

There's plenty of that from most of the Londoners on this thread TBH. I have been to Wales several times and not come up against unfriendly, inward looking people. Maybe the common denominator isn't the Welsh?

I'm from London. I lived and worked there, and now live in Yorkshire. I like visiting London, but I have no wish to live there again.

During the first lockdown there were a lot of unhappy posters complaining that they were cooped up in a flat and were only allowed out for half an hour a day. Meanwhile I was sat in my sunny garden or walking through woods and fields.

It's horses for courses. I get why people love London, but there is no need for the sneery patronising tone from ignorant Londoners who have clearly never ventured outside of the M25.

How long have you got?
We don’t have huge salaries although my partner is older and bought a flat that appreciated a fair bit in value so we don’t have a huge mortgage. We’re in zone 3 east London and get can in to central London in under 30 mins. So much access to cultural opportunities, great public transport and lots of creative work going on in the local area. And despite being in inner London we have a good network of neighbours and a great GP practice where we can get appointments! Not things you would usually associate with London. That being said there are pros and cons of living anywhere & I’m not down on other parts of the country 😊.

I don't relate to the idea of needing a huge six figure salary to live in London.

We live in zone 3. Our mortgage is about £500 a month. Our house isn't worth millions. It's prob worth 450-500k. I understand we are lucky but apart from housing costs, what else is more expensive in London? Food costs the same. Council tax is often more outside of London. Ours is about £160 a month. Utilities are the same surely? My DC both get free bus travel. Petrol isn't more expensive.

London is full of people on low or average wages. Yes if you want to live centrally and send your DC to private school or have a nanny, you'll need a big salary but that's a lifestyle choice.

I’m from here, my family are here and provide childcare. My job is here. Friends. Not to mention I can hop on a bus or train to anywhere. Loads of interesting activities for the kids. Diversity of people.

Job opportunities. There's only 2-3 cities in the UK where I could do my job.

You don't need 100K to be comfortable - if you're happy to live a modest lifestyle. We do live in a slightly shit flat in a pretty shit area but, it feels exciting and there's always something going on. It makes me more motivated to try new stuff and do new things (I know that's not true for everyone).

We earn 60K between us and are pretty comfortable. No kids though, by choice - partly because I do agree that that would then make London unaffordable.

People always get defensive about how the rest of the UK compares to London. By virtue of being the biggest city it is the most diverse, connected place in the country. That's undeniable.

And how many Londoners actually spend every weekend visiting art galleries and museums, going to the opera/ballet and eating in michelin starred restaurants?

There are a significant number who do. I'm sure some of these are on Mumsnet.

A perspective on the old “I walked into a pub in Wales and they all started speaking Welsh” trope

nation.cymru/culture/an-englishman-walks-into-a-pub/

@RampantIvy It's horses for courses. I get why people love London, but there is no need for the sneery patronising tone from ignorant Londoners who have clearly never ventured outside of the M25.

Isnt it sneery and patronising to label Londoners ignorant and imply they’ve never been north of Watford?

Loads of it is free
It isn't more expensive to eat out than other cities across the rest of the country any longer- used to be. Last week I was in Manchester and eating out there was more than in central London and beer was the same price.

Yes, I live next to a major art gallery and pop in most weeks as I go past, walk along Thames- tube to South Ken for museums etc Loads of free events once you get on to mailing lists.

Travel is cheaper by far. Other than housing costs I don't think London is more expensive than many parts of the country. Council tax is one of the lowest in the country in my borough and the services for the money are amazing- daily bin collection, paths cleared of snow instantly last week, pavements in good repair

We don't do all of that every weekend but we do do those things. My husband and I are going to the Fat Duck this weekend and we popped into the Tate during our lunch break yesterday for a walk .

Why do people live in N Wales, why do people live in Edinburgh, why do people live in Manitoba, why do people buy VW’s, why do people buy BMW’s, why do people eat cheese, why do people drink alcohol, why do people wear leggings, why do people do anything??

Different people do different things for a variety of reasons and sometimes because they want to and other times they don’t have any other choice. Shocker. How do you not know this?

Stupid question from the Op, asked just to be provocative. Another London bashing thread.

I’ve watched Hidden and North Wales is definitely somewhere I would never want to live!

I can make stupid statements too.

I work from home in London, so I also don’t worry about childcare.

My DH earns much more than the same job pays elsewhere, which mets housing costs in zone 5 easily. My job is paid hourly pretty, much exactly double what it is elsewhere in the UK, maybe more than double. Many places in the UK now aren’t far off zone 5/6 area prices.

Transport in is cheap (I can cross into London if I want for £1.65 on a bus with 4 kids). £2.70 to cross it on a train off-peak. Buses are so expensive elsewhere.

The cheap funded opportunities or low activity costs for kids is great, so much is subsidised. Free holiday clubs such as sailing, karate or art around. So many free fun days or days out, things like the Barbican film club or BFI film club have really cheap family films. Museums etc. entertainment of children is free/ cheap and endless.

Neither of us were born British, it’s so much easier to operate in a multicultural city with an accent. No one bats an eyelid and you are instantly part of communities you join. Time and time again in other areas we’ve had barriers, like having to justify a basic level of English in entry level jobs repeatedly to someone to the point of rudeness (despite have a Master’s Degree from England and sitting there clearly speaking fluent English). It’s just so much smoother in London to be not local.

I can deal with the weather in the SE. I’m not a rain person.

I like the diversity and options for culture. I use seat filling last minute websites to go to the theatre at least monthly for cheap. I explore London very regularly, seeing galleries etc.

Lastly it’s the only place I really can easily find a community of ex-pats for my children to have some experiences of their heritage. There’s a community centre and events which we enjoy.

I think that’s a reasonable list!

This was a long time ago back in the 70s around the same time it was widely publicised that some Welsh people were setting fire to holiday homes owned by English people in North Wales. Charming eh?

My DM told me this also happened to her friends who’d moved there (both English), they would go somewhere to find Welsh people speaking English, as soon as they noticed they (the English couple) was there, they’d switch to speaking Welsh. No wonder they moved from there back to England. This was in north Wales.

It's so busy and fast moving.

And I guess you get some people that love that and some people that hate it.

Personally, I'm with you. I don't like it.

I don't like anything about it.

I gave it a go when I was younger and moved after 6 months. Still occasionally go for work and still don't like it.

It's very different to anywhere else. What struck me was a lot of very fresh faced females. in the regional offices of my work women dress smartly and that often includes make-up. In the London offices, very fresh faced. And this is basically because their lives are so fast paced that they don't have time to put make-up on in the mornings. I see them on the tube at 7am with no makeup and hair wet from the shower. They look great but I'm too ugly for that I live in a quiet suburban area but can walk into the centre of town in 20minutes. I can get up at 7:20 and have a leisurely shower / coffee / makeup / dry hair then a peaceful walk into centre of town. I just cant live at the pace they live at in London, but I'm guessing they can and they enjoy it.

Now I'm only in the office once or twice a week I could move further out. But I'm a contractor and my next job might be office full time. Living somewhere I can get to Canary Wharf or the city quickly makes it less stressful when I change jobs.
I've tried living elsewhere and been miserable.

I'm single, no kids though, and so I like having lots of options on my doorstep for weekends.
Public transport is cheap, council tax is lower than a lot of places, I live in a high rise so don't need to put the heating on.
Yes rent and going for drinks is expensive but the rest of my costs are lower than living elsewhere, while earning a heap more.

Why did they do this?

I dont tend to eat in Michelin restaurants as they are mostly full of insta wannabes these days.

But I do the rest every week.

My children are mixed race. That is a major factor.