Lying at work - AIBU

[housepants]

Have a horrible situation at work, pretty sure INBU but colleague seem to think otherwise so here goes!

Colleague (lets call her Sue). Everyone loves her, she's a good laugh, comes to all the socials. Always pipes up in company meetings so the big bosses love her too.

However, my job relates to her team's 'output', and she does literally less than 1/10th of work than her colleagues (all have had same training, less support and some are paid less too). Only her line manager (lets call her Jill) and I have visibility of exactly who's doing what in that team. I've raised concerns previously, but none of the steps Jill and I have taken to support Sue have had any impact. Jill and Sue are friends outside of work.

I suspected Sue was lying about what she was doing and this has now been confirmed multiple times. The lies are e.g it's nearly finished, but I've asked x for these final figures and he hasn't sent them to me yet (truth - hasn't started report). Or - this work's all done and sent to the client, just waiting for sign off (truth - has only just started the report, hasn't been in touch with client at all).

Writing these reports is 100% of Sue's job. I base my job on these reports, so progress milestones are key. Morals aside, this is a massive issue for my job and makes me look like a tit!

Jill thinks they are white lies and we don't need to take it further. I think we do.

YABU - everyone lies, get over it
YANBU - you can't lie like this at work and get away with it.

is Jill your boss?

if not, talk to your own boss about how Sue's lateness impacts on your work. Ask your boss how you should get your job done if you are not getting the reports that you need from Sue.

She's getting paid to do a job she's not doing, and effectively taking her colleagues for mugs. YANBU in the slightest.

The rest of Sue's team LOVE her. They have no idea she's doing fuck all and that they are picking up the slack.

She's playing on the fact people love her because she's convinced she can get away with it. It's a bit like workplace bullies who make themselves indispensable to senior colleagues so they'll never get caught out. Obviously not comparing her to actual bullies, but it's all very manipulative.

Jill's not my boss no, but my boss (Meg) doesn't seem to care either about the lack of work from Sue. Meg also thinks Sue's great, although doesn't know about the lying (yet). It's also a weird structure so Sue's team don't have much to do with Meg - I'm the inbetween person.

So what's the best procedure/structure for you to report her?

You don't need to discuss this with the rest of the team. Confidentially, go to someone (other than Jill) who is higher up than you. Have the proof you need, ask them how best to approach this - do you deal directly with Sue, or pass it on to Jill's boss? Tell them you know that Jill & Sue are close, so you have avoided talking with Jill to save her from a difficult situation.

Honestly - you'll be surprised how much people don't love her if they realize she's doing this.

If you're going to walk into a lions den, whatever you do, have the correct tools.

In your case, evidence, evidence, evidence

No one's going to back you up. So if you're going to do this, you need to be absolutely watertight.

Your call. But I'm sensing you don't like her. Is that driving you?

I hate to say it but I’ve experienced working with a Sue and there is nothing you can do. Everyone loves her and even tho she isn’t doing her job everyone thinks she’s amazing at her job. She probably has senior management taking about how great she is. She will have received bonuses for just doing the bare minimum. It sucks but no one wants to see the truth. She is smiling at the right people, laughing at the right jokes and showing up to the right events. Unfortunately that’s how you get by in some workplaces.

You've raised it, you now should leave it.
If the managers were bothered then they would have done something.

Raise on a case by case basis if it affects YOU. Keep an email trail, cover your back.

There is value in a team player that boosts morale of others, maybe they are accepting sub standards in exchange for this.

YANBU, but there is no gain in pursuing it, only risk to you.

I agree that there’s nothing you can do except take a step back. I also had a similar experience. It will all come out eventually. It always does. But tread carefully here and focus on your own work.

I think you should be honest when needed about why you are not able to do your job but justvsty factual and dont make extra comments or judgements . I would keep a log of incidents you have proof about if you think something will directly come back to bite you . However you need to be careful as it could look like you have an axe to grind that makes you look petty or like a busy body . She might bring strengths to the team that others value even though you dont. In every team there is someone who talks the talk but is generally a bit crap. I tend to think it is usually clocked by others eventually but usually little you can do about it.

Do you know the output of every team member because what you do follows on from their work? If you want to build up evidence, you could keep a tally of who completes each report, if there are any hold ups etc. Then present it to more senior management in graph form with supporting data. That means going over your boss.

The caveat in this is that you’re potentially going to be blamed for all of this and could make your life very awkward. You also don’t know how receptive management will be. You’d not just be whistleblowing on Sue but Jill for being a shit manager for putting friendship before business and Meg, who also doesn’t care enough to line manage either.

I think you should weigh up how much you want Sue outed with how much you love your job. Are you friendly with anyone from Jill’s team you could hint at issues?

If her failure to work is delaying your work, are you emailing her to say please provide x output by y time? In my line of work it’s quite appropriate to cc your own manager (not hers) the second time you ask.

It’s also a very bad idea, in case you have been doing this, to politely cover up someone else’s shortcomings so eg if Meg says where is x it is best to say “Sue has not yet provided it to me”, rather than “it won’t be much longer”.

You have my sympathies OP, I’ve worked with one or two Sues and Sues are only fun for the people whose work doesn’t depend on her!

Since this is impacting your work I think it should be escalated. But like a previous poster said, you need all the evidence you can get to back up what you’re saying. Keep it very factual and neutral. I wouldn’t necessarily lead with the fact that she is lying but rather that it is clear to you that work is not being completed in a timely fashion or to an expected standard (whatever bullshit she is saying to the contrary). Try and elevate it beyond a ‘he said, she said’ type of grievance: if you can demonstrate losses or inefficiency or delays as a result of this then bring that out as clearly as possible - or that it is creating unnecessary pressure in your team.

I would also be careful about Jill/Meg. If they are mates with Sue then unless she’s burning the office down they probably will not see the importance of the issues you are flagging. I would go above them and choose someone you think either doesn’t know Sue or isn’t likely to be swayed by her.

Tread carefully. I have seen people be punished for going up against Sues because of whose face fits and social currency trumping performance.

I wouldn't tackle this head on. Although I'd want to!

You need a long standing email train of proof. This is to both back you up and also to cover your back if things implode before you do anything and Sue starts shovelling the shit on anybody else (you would no doubt be a target).

And I agree with this
If her failure to work is delaying your work, are you emailing her to say please provide x output by y time? In my line of work it’s quite appropriate to cc your own manager (not hers) the second time you ask.

It’s also a very bad idea, in case you have been doing this, to politely cover up someone else’s shortcomings so eg if Meg says where is x it is best to say “Sue has not yet provided it to me”, rather than “it won’t be much longer

Do your job but do not in any way smooth over what she's not doing. Don't imply she's lying either. You need to remove your understandable irritation with her, be neutral with a smile.

I don't think there is a short term solution. It's a bit of a long game. Because she already has everybody loving her.

And on that front I'd start a bit of getting yourself positively noticed by management too, because that will help you in the long run here.

People like this really annoy me. If the company needs a friendly person then that's cool but don't put them in charge of a team, get the team to do all the manager's work and their own, and reward the manager as though they're pulling their weight, plus put them in a position that impacts other people's deliverables.

tread carefully. Keep records for your own benefit and to have your back covered
Bosses only care about the work being done, they are not generally interested in micro managing people so from that angle Sue is doing her job, she could argue that she's allowing them to take responsibility to further their career and help in their personal development

Thanks all, helpful responses. I do like Sue - as I said, a good laugh. If I didn't have to rely on them to tell the truth re. their work, I'd have no issue with them. Even if they said, I haven't started it, that would be bearable. It's the lying I have issue with. It not only makes out they are doing loads of work and that it's other people who are fucking up/slowing down projects but also means I make a start on something which then stalls/repeatedly fails.

Can you ask for the emails that have been "sent" - let me have a copy of the email to bob asking for X figures and I'll follow up as this is causing a delay to the overall project.