To leave a senior civil service job for a senior role in consultancy?

[Nonotmeagain]

I’m a senior civil servant and although I have a full on job that means long hours, I value the flexibility as I have a young daughter.

I’ve been offered a senior position in a consultancy firm. It pays 1.5 times my current pay. I am really worried that I will not have the flexibility I have in my current job in the civil service.

I want a change but would I be unreasonable to choose more money over flexibility and possibly impact on how I make time to spend with my daughter?

It really depends on your role and what you make of it. In some ways it can be highly flexible- at senior levels, you are most likely serving multiple clients at once. While that can be pressured, it also means nobody expects 100% of your time, so people expect to arrange around your schedule.

Also, if you are a topic expert rather than mainstream, generalist consultant, you have more flexibility on hours and generally less expectation of working killer hours.

There are also much more limited expectations on travel, since covid. Online is assumed expect for the most high stakes race to face work.

Finally, consultancies tend to take as much as you give. Work smart, dedicate your time to stuff that delivers great results, and learn to say no.... your lifestyle can be sustainable.

A lot depends on the specific company too. I'd talk to them and try to get a sense of expectations. Tell them what yours would be, and see if they seem to genuinely think it's feasible.

Let me add that I am really finding the responses helpful so thank you all for taking the time to respond. They are helping me with the thinking process.

Completely agree with this. I have worked in both (G6 civil service and big 4). I wouldn't swap the flexibility and general reasonable approach of the civil service for the customer led approach of the big 4.

I actually don't think I'd ever swap back but definitely not before my kids are grown and left.

I'm an ex-Big Four Director (I now work in a very similar role - minus the sales targets - at a former client).

I enjoyed my time in consultancy as I'm used to working in a very, fast-paced aggressive environment anyway (investment banking). But the hours were brutal, the clients demanding (they love to play the consultancies off against each other) and usually the work was complex and challenging (no-one is going to pay for consultants for straightforward work - it's either complex or failing or both). Everyone judges you all the time. Constantly. My average hours were 12-16 per day. 12+ hours for my client (in their offices) then my additional consulting practice work (bids, recruitment, line management, sales, white papers, training etc). There can be a lot of travel (to some very humdrum places), often at very short notice. You may have to work away from home for 6+ months. New hires at Director level tend to be sent to work away somewhere 'grim' to cut their teeth. Whereas the existing Directors will have already done their 'grim' stints and proven themselves. This is actually one of the reasons why Directors tend not to move between consulting firms - no-one wants to prove themselves all over again as they know what a nightmare for your personal life that can be. As for flexibility, it depends on your clients. Some are nice people, some are arseholes (or nice people under huge pressure from their own management). Assume zero flexibility and just be happy if it's not too bad.

I came close to burning out several times. I finally decided to get out when I realised how warped my work-life balance had become. I called one of our salespeople at 11pm on a Mon night without even considering if it might be late (I was buried in work and it never crossed my mind). He answered of course and we had a normal conversation as if it was 11am rather than 11pm. Another member of the management team called me at 9am on a Sunday when I was on holiday (I was away and actually driving to a nice cafe for breakfast at the time). He didn't even say good morning but instead just launched into a tirade about a work issue. One of my directs asked me how on earth they were supposed to fit their mandatory training around their long client days and I replied "that's what weekends are for". All of this was completely normal in my firm. I never gave it a second thought. We were just consumed by work. And then it suddenly hit me that this wasn't normal (!!!) and I decided I needed to get out before I lost my personal life or sense of self completely.

Not everyone will have had this experience but this was mine. I miss it at times. But I wouldn't take on a role like this if I had children or a partner who wanted to actually see me. Partners have to be very understanding.

I earn less now but I'm 100% certain that my average hourly rate has increased.

Btw, look at their sick leave policy. Some of the consultancies are notoriously cheap with sick leave (if you're not billing, they're not happy!) and may only pay a max of 4 weeks full salary. I'm guessing that may be rather different to CS?

To summarise, you will get a salary bump but by God you will earn every extra penny. Nothing comes for free. Don't fool yourself that it does.

I've moved in the opposite direction (Big4 to CS). Can I ask what your specialism is? It might make it easier to give specific advice as there can be significant variation based on what area you work in.

You will definitely find Big4 less flexible, and significant overtime is likely to be expected. You will also have to accurately account for your time in 6 minute increments every day.

As a director, there will be a requirement to make sales - this suits some people down to the ground, but not others.

Also - salary may be higher but the Big4 don't make high E'er pension contributions. Have you worked out what you will need to put into your pension to replicate your current CS pension benefits? When I did the maths, the Big4 would have needed to pay me 50% more than my CS salary just to break even on pension.

I wouldn't. I can't express how much the flexibility is needed when you're dc are at school. I suppose you could probably try it and go back. I've been trying for ages to get into the CA seems like a club that you need to get membership of.

My job is easy to slip into a role in CS or a private company but for some reason I can easily get jobs for more money in the private sector but CS is like Fort Knox even trying to get an interview! Also are the benefits better? That's another reason I'd rather take less pay and move over to the CS.
Think it through!

"I have a heavy workload in the CS and my day is usually jam-packed with meetings. There is a lot of big p and small p politics, so all around exhausting. However, I can without too much problem easily clear my diary and delegate to someone else. The emails will still be waiting to drown me when I get back. I currently only go into the office once a week and I can pick up my daughter from school everyday except the one day I go into the office. My husband picks her up then."

Sounds like you need the flexibility. As your daughter goes into tween and teen years she will need you more not less.

In my case, I made the change to CS from Consultancy for reason of flexibility and good pensions - you couldn't pay me to go back.

The quality of life despite the workload and politics, is much better than the always looming burnout that customer facing roles took out of me over time.

Tough decision and hope you find the one sits best with you, as such a personal choice depends on what works with your circumstances.

@Nonotmeagain go for the interview. You've nothing to lose. You can ask these questions. Be cheeky and tell them your terms of employment.

It's good to brush up your CV be interviewed occasionally.

Previous posters have made good points

I think this depends a lot on where you see your career going as well. If you are going in as an expert in something, and I assume you are (I assume you would be going into. Public sector practice at the firm), then there is more scope for a successful career than a generalist.

What is your business plan and path to partner? Do you want to be a partner or jump ship elsewhere? Do you know how much partners get paid and is this something you’re factoring in? Remember that more of the job is to do with selling than ‘working’ at director level and there will be more politics than you might think when it comes to progression. And your competition will be more experienced in these areas as well.

I think if you stick at it and are willing to suffer a lot of years as a director before being promoted it could be a good move, but also considering flexibility which will be less (although will vary hugely by firm and team - my work life balance was ok at big 4, rarely worked evenings and almost never weekends).

I wouldn't. You mention back to back meetings and drowning in emails but you will have that in private sector in spades.

Civil Service pension is one of the best, isn't it?

Have you worked in private sector before?

Can you take a leave of absence and come back to the CS if it's too much?

Interesting. I could take a career break but I don’t believe it allows you to work in the private sector. I will explore nonetheless.

@vagueandconfused I have worked in the private sector and consultancy big 4 many moons ago. I had a lot of energy then, no responsibilities and I really can’t remember what it felt like.

@ManyMaybes your experience is interesting- not having to sacrifice weekends and evenings. Yes it will be in an expert role. An area that I’ve worked in for the past 11 years.

I’m not desperate and my current salary is very good. I don’t want to make a move that then turns out to not be worth the extra cash. If only I had a crystal ball.

Does your department have a reappointment policy? Mine does, which means you can be reappointed within 5 years without interview if there’s an available post.

Can you ask them to set up a chat with someone else at your grade in the company to talk to about this sort of thing? I think if you phrase it as "it would be a big change for me and I would like to chat through the day to day realities of the role" it would sound ok to them?

I think given that your DD is 11, the school pick ups are potentially less of a concern? Will she not make her own way soon?

I think also that pension Vs cash now is a complicated issue.

You will have a lot of years of CS pension and if your DH also has a CS or other defined benefit pension, I don't think it would be unreasonable to think you might rather have the higher salary so that you can, for example, have more to put your DD through university or to take big trips (I really want to take mine to do something like the Inca trail when they are teens).

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on the pension issue, but I do think it's worth taking the time to make sure you have really got the numbers clear

I would go for it if youre looking to move in from your current role. Your daughter is old enough to get herself to and from school. Director at big 4 is a really good offer and great on the cv. It will open up a lot more doors in 5 years.

Depends on the consultancy, I work for one that's family friendly and flexible. And with your pay increase, could you start on fewer hours to give you more time with your DD?

And also, have you asked them directly about family friendly working patterns? They might surprise you.

The landscape of work has changed dramatically over the last ten years and not for the better. The combination of companies wanting their pound of flesh. the expectation to 'always be on' and struggling to recruit is not a good one.

I could be wrong but I think you will have to work quite a bit harder for that better salary.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/4577593-technology-big-4-consulting-do-you-finish-on-time

www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/2486006-Big-4-auditor

It is worth understanding what your “route to market” will be, and whether this is external or internal.

If it is external then you will be the person selling to clients and responsible for delivery, almost always delivery which is being undertaken by other people, many of whom you do not directly manage, and you may just work with for the duration of that particular piece of work. The churn rate of staff at senior manager and below can be very high so you are regularly working (and therefore training) with new people. If their work is late or below standard then you will be fixing this at short notice. There will be evenings/weekends where you have no choice but to cancel plans and work through. This is hard, very hard, with teens, but the buck stops with you.

However you could also be the expert that other directors/partners draw into their projects, ie your route is more internal. You will be selling your services to colleagues (and will still have to network and market yourself). Here you will have more flexibility and be less squeezed - another partner/Director is responsible for final delivery and is the one who gets squeezed!

You may end up doing both (and shouldn’t rule it out). But if you are after flexibility then you really need to consider whether you can get most of your work as an SME to other partners, or whether you will be the person selling and delivering a wider project directly to clients.

I’ll have to suck it up buttercup 🤷🏻‍♀️

+1 on this.

my DH is a consultant works 9-5.30 and is virtually fully remote. He doesnt and wouldnt work big 4 though. We know enough people who have to know its not for us.

My understanding is civil servant pay isnt great (pension compensates) But the 50% increase is throwing me...
I worked with a woman who went to boston consulting group as a director specialising in digital for 150k plus bonuses pre pandemic

It might be better to look at an internal CS move...

I think if you go for it, it's worth being canny about the salary negotiation - price up the CS pension value and get them to up the salary offer to compensate and the same on annual leave, aim to keep 31.5 days or whatever you're on.

And then if you return to the CS try to keep the big 4 salary but with the pension on top. That seems to be what all my colleagues do - with the lack of pay rises in the CS over the last decade, it's the only way to get your pay increased

Knowing what the CS pay, I wonder whether the Big 4 sees you as a cheap hire.

I would expect the salary on offer to be higher than 1.5x what you're on now. I don't think the money is going to be that much of a step up once you take the pension into account.