Should childcare be paid for and other benefits given just for having a child/children?

[Sunshine236]

Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

It's controversial but why do some people feel entitled to be monetarily supplemented because they’ve had a child?

It’s surely a lifestyle choice and people should ensure they can afford to have children?

For sure there should absolutely be a safety net for those who have had children and circumstances change seeing them need urgent support, but I’ve read people earning £100k are receiving some kind of support each month and now we're looking to provide further free childcare.

There are so many other issues such as social care, NHS funding etc that need funding which money could go towards, rather than supplementing people who are already receiving a decent salary just because they’ve had a child/children?

@Kazzyhoward for next prime minister, Good words, thanks you.

I'm a healthcare assistant and on a low salary as is every other care worker. There is no way I Could afford to pay childcare on what I earn. If childcare wasn't funded many people providing social care wouldn't be be able to work. Its a predominantly female role and I can't speak for all care settings but the majority of women I work with have children. Putting extra funding into social care won't help if the majority of the work force can't work because they can't afford the childcare costs, unless your plan is to have an on site crèche provided for these women. I do agree that social care needs extra funding, but your wrong in thinking that childcare should not be funded. If lockdown taught us anything is that key workers, generally low paid workers, are very much needed for society to run, and they should be able to have children if they wish.

In 2023 in a country where women have access to contraception and there isn't as strong a stigma to not doing so, having children IS a choice
thanks, I know DO what 'choice' means, but why is it being called a 'lifestyle choice'.... is that different to a bog standard 'choice'?
For me the term implies that something is a selfish or self indulgent choice, I just wanted to make sure I dont have a different understanding, to that of the consensus!

so for you maybe the term 'self inflicted'/'self imposed' issue would be a better term, 'you made your bed, undertook this willingly so dont complain'...kinda thing?

People on over £100k get bugger all help with childcare and it's infuriating.

I have 3 kids and for me it's not worth earning between £100-120k ish because of the cut-off point so I watch extremely carefully to make sure I don't slip over with a bonus. Actually I'm better off going down to 3 days ish because of childcare costs, tax and NI rates, and child benefit cut offs, which obviously means I'd pay a lot less tax and NI.

So we have a system that is actually disincentivising being a net contributor (the tipping point is something like £60k) when you have young kids. I actually did a benefit calculation on entitled to and would have been better off in the short term if I'd not bothered buying a house and just jacked off work when I had my last baby to live off universal credit and housing benefit instead of working full time. Again, this would mean I would be taking about the same amount from the system as I currently put in and I would be, in the short term, better off for it.

It's rubbish like this that turns higher earners right wing - being expected to pay for everything and never getting anything back. Like it or not we need them on side.

Anyway my personal belief is childcare should be like student loans. Paid upfront but you pay it back over a reasonable period of time in an affordable way. None of this rubbish of pretending to fund it but actually just stuffing the childcare settings for political points.

Agree with a lot of what you both said. People definitely overstate the whole private decision when how they raise their children affects us all.

and the idea of having kids for the greater good is quite strange and doesn’t ring true. If you wanted kids just say so don’t pretend there was an altruistic reason behind it. There’s even posts on this thread admitting they found it hard to live without having children so it’s clearly something they did purely for themselves as they weren’t living happy or fulfilled lives before, and they did not do it to ‘help’ society.

personally I’m happy for my tax to fund children etc but I do think all political parties need to consider those without children a bit more too. It really grinds my gears when politicians talk solely about “hard working families”.

👏🏻 perfect reply !! Need I say anymore :)

If nobody has a “right” to procreate, I guess the posters stating that also think the NHS should stop funding IVF under all circumstances?

I don’t think you’ll find any working parents that feel ‘entitled’ to be monetarily supplied with any type of funding. By your reckoning, why do people ‘expect’ their energy bills to be subsidised? If you can’t afford energy you shouldn’t live in a house, surely? There is no ‘expectation’ just survival. The parents that are forced to give up work due to the costs associated with maintaining their job, are too great. So they stop work. The issue here is the costs being prohibitive to work. They don’t abandon their children to continue working do they, of course not, that would be ridiculous. They continue to pool their money and resources to raise their children to be productive members of society. Most of the time, this is successful.

Your suggestion that having children is a ‘lifestyle choice’, should mean that every parent should only proceed if they are 100% sure they can fund the upbringing of said children until the age of 18. What a ridiculous notion!

You are closed minded and entitled just because you decided or could not have or do not want children of your own. Does that mean that when you access any services whatsoever you should give that person the choice as to wether or not to assist you or provide that service? No of course it doesn’t, because we live in a world where despite our choices, we all support one another in whatever way possible. Narrow minded thinking is what causes these divides. Sure there will be a minority that don’t work because they think they are better off that way. They’ll claim PIP or whatever benefits they are entitled to. What do you want, to collapse a whole economy and society because you don’t want them to have that? Of course not. Your opinion is valid, it doesn’t make you right though. IMP you’re looking at a tiny corner of the bigger picture.

*IMO

@Sshiamreading your view is quite nasty just because you don't have children. Tax funds lots of things your speaking as though us with kids don't pay tax. Why someone wants to have kids doesn't need to be justified to you. Your probably young right now and able bodied.... but as they say "it's no fun getting old".

I hope you can fund yourself in old age and your not relying on anybody child's to assist with cleaning, delivering your shopping or any type of rest bite care years down the line!

Because obviously only the rich can have children, the people that you know have jobs (that this country need) like carers,nurses,teachers,cleaners,shop workers dont deserve children.
Maybe instead of moaning about people having children they can not afford because they are not being paid enough, moan about the crap pay!

And if people who work in low income jobs stop having children who would look after society and look after the economy then?

When I was young only my dad worked and my mom stayed home I loved she was always there for me. There to pick me up there to make me dinner there to see my school play.
To many times people have babies to shove them in a nursery from six months then only see them in the evenings and weekends I know it’s hard situation for the parents but my sons used to cry their eyes out when I dropped them at nursery everyday.
It still upsets me that I missed time with them as I was always working I won’t get that back because were forced to work.
Have a two year old now and I’m there everyday for her till she starts school we struggle like most people but I love being with her and learnt from the past.

Women should have the choice and not be forced either way child benefit should continue no child should be in poverty in this country.

Stop being so aggressive. That's clearly not what I said. I'm not getting into an argument with you.

That would be part of a public policy debate on the impact of humans on the environment.

I took time out if work to raise my kids because of childcare issue but also my employers were vile in terms of flexibility when I came back from maternity leave as often my child would be ill even had manager saying whys your husband who worked in same company left his work to pick up our sick child when it should have been me like his job was more important.
Between £800 nursery fees and petrol I came home with £300 net for working 40plus hours. Stressful commute.
Hardly seeing my husband was detrimental to our marriage.
We had zero family locally.

We got by the early years and primary years until my 3rd child started seniors .
I don't regret taking the time out.
I did voluntary work on pta/ breastfeeding support group.
Had a few part time jobs
My 3rd child actually has some special needs so needed more support.
Its been a struggle live on one income and plan always was when 3rd started seniors and youngest reception paying wrap around care for just 1 child was affordable and I do 25hours a week which is good balance.
I'm aware I'm so behind on pensions .
Lifes so expenses now its very hard live on 1 income without any additional benefits.
Child benefit is all we get and would have loved to see that increased.

Also I feel all schools kids should get bus pass to get to school as bus passes costs us £150 month.

My childcare costs are quite low as have a flexible employer so I don't require breakfast club and only need after school club Twice a week so is £80 month which is 8 hours out of 100 I work each month based on 4week month.
Pay an additional £20 day holiday club and strike day cover.

Also there's times unfortunately I can't work as child's sick.
1 day school heating was broke and shut
Think they were shut over storm arwen

Inset days in addition to school holidays.

School have so much time off it can hard even with 2 parents annual leave to cover all this.
Not so much teenagers as can leave them alone but young kids you can't.
Freinds primary randomly cancelled thier afterschool club before xmas as not enough staff and stress that caused.

I do think preschool education is important so welcome 15hours from age 2 instead of term after 3rd birthday which is unfair on spring/ Sumner born as they like get 1 year of preschool/ nursery before they start reception.

Is the OP happy private school are subsidised by being a charity
Pay less tax.

I don't think new scheme offers any help school age wrap around kids example 2 kids at primary breakfast club and after school would £40 per day £200 week or £800 per month .

Absolutely, child care should be free, like in Germany.
Children benefit everyone in society. Why wouldn’t we want them to be educated and cared for at society’s investment?
They are the next generation who will work and invest in society when we are retired. They will be paying taxes, insurance etc that will continue to provide us all with health care, policing, teachers, everything! They refresh and renew and recharge. How dull would life be if we all decided not to have them.

I think supporting parents is a good, pragmatic, response to reality.

Health, well educated kids lead to healthy well educated adults who are more likely to be able to contrubute to the work force for longer. Contrubution to the work force leads to higher levels of taxation and the ability of the state to continue supplying the wide range of benefits (including pensions - don't start the debate about if a pension is a benefit or not, the govenment counts is as a beneift as it is paid out of the annual tax haul) that we all enjoy as a society.

Also, 80% of women become parents by the age of 45. So whether they did it for private reasons (likely) or for the public good (unlikely), the children exist though no fault of their own and ideally should be looked after and educated well. Not supplying child benefits or education largely punshishes the child, and I don't think that is right.

Having said all that, the current system is pretty unfair. Quality of schools vary wildly and the individual cap on child benfits vs a family income cap makes no sense and can be manipulated.

because having a child is not a LIFESTYLE CHOICE. It’s a basic human right.

because children are people too, and need a social welfare net if their families are struggling.

because having children is a social good in that it is necessary for sustaining human society. (Of course this third point falls down if you are not concerned with the annihilation of the human race (preceded by a very painful period of elders dying with no one to care for them).

@Sunshine236 what is your age range and your household income range? The whole point of this policy is to get more people into work. There will always be additional winners and losers.

The people on lower incomes as individuals contribute less in taxes in absolute terms than high earners. So the high earners are already funding themselves the free childcare or what ever else is provided through government. And they are funding it at a higher lever than the low earners.

Most of them have also gone through years of stressful training and education.

Now, if they have to pay higher taxes (assuming they are in the higher income tax band) and on top of that not benefit from any government provided services as th etc are high earners and are also expected to fund as much as possible private healthcare, schooling etc it won’t be very attractive to spend all the years training etc.

If we all made the choice not to have children, we'd be in a bit of a mess in a few years time, wouldn't we? I absolutely think the taxpayer should fund childcare. Tbh, those without children probably end up financially very much better off (raising a child costs £££) and will benefit from other people's kids in the future ( your bus driver/care assistant/shop worker/doctor).

Well, exactly. Of course no one has kids purely for the the greater good, but they‘re not just their parents‘ personal projects either. They are the future of our society.
Weird that it even needs spelling out.

This is why this country is so fu...d and getting worse, and yet people still keep voting conservative to protect their own little corner at all costs! Lots of peeps here have a weird mentality of "Why should I contribute anything to a well-functioning, equal society?" Everything is about the individual and guarding your material possessions. So inequality is rife, opportunities for any but the born privileged are scarce, huge differences in quality of education depending on your social class, ever-widening chasm between different layers of society. People are so short-sighted and ignorant, frankly.

Your post reads very sneery about those who choose to have children. Would you like a pension, or functioning NHS or basically every other public service? It is our children who will pay for that for you.

Forgot to add completely unaffordable and incredibly poor quality housing for anyone but the fortunate and wealthy...