Should childcare be paid for and other benefits given just for having a child/children?

[Sunshine236]

Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

It's controversial but why do some people feel entitled to be monetarily supplemented because they’ve had a child?

It’s surely a lifestyle choice and people should ensure they can afford to have children?

For sure there should absolutely be a safety net for those who have had children and circumstances change seeing them need urgent support, but I’ve read people earning £100k are receiving some kind of support each month and now we're looking to provide further free childcare.

There are so many other issues such as social care, NHS funding etc that need funding which money could go towards, rather than supplementing people who are already receiving a decent salary just because they’ve had a child/children?

@Happychappy12345 Don’t be so silly, you are not having children for the greater good, you’re having them because you want them. The martyrdom is so tedious.

The "greater good" is a needed byproduct though isn't it. We do actually need people to have children. Otherwise who will staff the hospitals and care homes and look after all the miserable bastards who hate children and working parents? Because someone needs to.

But hey, nothing is gonna stop people from breeding so it’s a pretty moot point.

*@fitzwilliamdarcy But the birth rate is declining and more people are choosing to be childfree. So something can/does stop them from breeding!

Because the economy is a mess and you want people working. It seems backwards that women can’t work because of children. Why should having a family and creating a new population mean you have to stop working? whether you like it or not, people will have children and a very large part of the population agree that it is a right (and something they enjoy too). You could argue why provide birth control - people shouldn’t ever have sex. It’s a lifestyle choice.

As a higher earner and I pay nearly £3k in income tax and NI per month. My annual bonus will come with a tax bill of somewhere in the 10k mark. I’m happy to pay my share of tax (privileged to do so) but I’m almost certain YOU aren’t paying for my subsidised childcare?

@Birdsbirdsbirds It’s not why people are doing it, though. Which was why I made that point rather than discussing byproducts.

@HamBone I meant altogether. We’re not globally running out of people.

I do accept that you can make people do less breeding, yes. Mind you if all of the countries trying to increase their birthdates manage it then we’re globally fucked though so there’s that, I guess.

On principle I do actually agree with you.

But principles don't pay the bills or run the economy. We need to do this to increase numbers in work, therefore productivity, therefore improving the economy.

Then you need to consider our massively ageing population and if the birth rate drops further then we will be in serious trouble

It’s an inbuilt urge for many humans, like the other urges we have. I don’t judge my friends who are child free but you can’t pretend there is no value to the world in having them. There is a value in us doing a range - some of us having children and some not. It’s good we’re not all having lots because of the population issues, however it is good that some of us still are as it would also be a mess if we didn’t. And yes it’s ok for us to want to continue our species for whatever time we have left of the planet 🙄for those who think otherwise I always wonder why they’re still here if they think that way.

LOL at comparing the choice to have children to getting Botox or buying a car. So many completely clueless people here. Deciding to have a baby is NOT the same as deciding to buy a nice new fucking lamp. I spent around a year absolutely heartbroken that we couldn't afford another baby until my mother in law retired and offered to provide free childcare for us. It's very easy for people who do not want children to say that it's easy to just choose not to have them.

Bore off with bashing people who have children.

@Lelophants Can you point to where I said anything about there being no value in having kids in what I said?

What I said is that nobody has kids to benefit society. Which is true.

Also @Lelophants, if it helps your curiosity I’d gladly take myself off this mortal coil if I had a guaranteed painless way to do it.

I have 2 under 2. I don't feel entitled to anything. They are mine, I chose to have them so it's my responsibility to make sure I can afford to pay for them. As a couple we can afford their childcare fees even though it gets a bit tight sometimes. However, the day they qualify for the 30 free hours and we are no longer paying over twice our mortgage to send them to nursery will be a happy day in my house.

Why does it matter? It's beneficial. Who cares what the motive is! Unless you'd prefer to go without hospital care or supermarket staff or you know, every other service you might need.

@BluebellBlueballs I don’t care that the true motive is “I want kids”. What I would like is for other people to trying to pretend that the motive is some kind of altruism rather than simply, y’know, “I want kids”.

@fitzwilliamdarcy We’ve got too many people because we’re living longer, the 2022 global birth rate is only 2.3 according to the UN and predicted to decline.

As I said upthread, it’ll even out eventually, but some of us need to die off first. The current low breeders aren’t the problem!

@HamBone Agree that the living longer thing is an issue. It’s why I mentioned voluntary euthanasia in my post. I have no desire whatsoever to live in a care home.

That said with how unhealthy we all are I imagine life expectancy will start falling soon as well. Hopefully that’ll help.

Ah I did the kind of rudimentary calculation that means I'll never earn 100k 😂. I stand corrected.

Someone quoted £15-20k per kid which is where I worked 50k a year childcare from. The lower end given where I work is prob more like 40k.

50k each is 37.5k a year, X 2 partners. So 75k. 40k childcare is 35k left over. So marginally tighter then what we're on now but yes, we could. Low rent area. No car.

So in ops new world, we could afford to have kids (we aimed for 2 which would have been more affordable but the egg split) but we'd be living a very basic wc life for that. 100k joint would probably be the lowest though for 2-3 kids.

So should schools be charged for too then?

We need people to have children they are the next generation without people having children society will die out. Its not a lifestyle choice in the same way buying a new car or a pet is. It's a choice society needs people to make.
And having children shouldn't just be something for rich people. I dread to think what kind of society we would end up with if that happened. So yes of course those with children should be supported financially. We should judge a society on how well it cares for it's most vulnerable members including children.

I think some people think "well the current pre schoolers can bathe me and feed me and take me to the loo, after I die who cares who will eventually do it for them. Not my monkey. Not my circus."

Couldn't agree more, @fitzwilliamdarcy

I also think we need to hold parents accountable for outcomes, more. If their kids, despite all of the money society sinks into them, turn out to be criminals, addicts, abusers, deadbeats, unemployable, etc., the parents should be charged back. Reduce their state pensions by an amount that recompenses society for the burden they created.

It's bullshit to say that it's a "private decision" and a "right" to procreate when all of the liabilities are inflicted on the public.

So if the only people ever having children are those rich enough to fully afford childcare then the birth rate would dramatically drop and we would have and currently aging population with very few people coming through society into the many jobs that will be required to support that ageing population. We would also end up with a huge social class gap. But oh, those people who don’t plan to get pregnant but do - by whatever means - will be forced to make decisions they don’t want to such as abortion, giving babies up for adoption etc etc.

The ‘only have children if you can afford child care’ is a really outdated belief.

Have you looked at places in Europe where all childcare is free or totally affordable and how it supports society?? Places where children don’t even have to start school until they’re 7 because the childcare provision before that is free or highly funded.

If people only had children when they had sat down and worked out how much it would truly cost - there would be very few children.

What do people earning a £100k get? I personally get sweet FA towards my childcare but would like to know if I have missed something.

Jesus having a child is not a lifestyle choice it's the reason we exist it's the essence of life, your writing this because someone had a child, doctors saving lives because someone had a child, I could go on. The world would stop if people stoped having children.

I do however fully understand people that choose it's not for them. But a lot of this could be the challenges too and childcare is a major one. It is unaffordable. Gender pay gaps, mental health, strain on relationships, it effects more than you realise.