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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why the NEU aren’t sitting down and talking about pay?

187 replies

Isntthatapippette · 14/03/2023 18:47

Genuine not goady.

Dear parents and carers,

I’m writing to update you ahead of the strike action planned by the National Education Union on Wednesday and Thursday this week.

This industrial action will mean more disruption to children’s education and to your lives too – whether that’s work, arranging childcare, or changing other plans.

I am extremely disappointed that many young people will once again miss invaluable time learning with their teachers and friends, particularly after their education was significantly disrupted during the pandemic.

It is made worse by the fact that this strike action is completely unnecessary. As I said to the NEU three weeks ago, I want to get around the table and engage in serious talks on teachers’ pay and other issues to resolve disputes.

My only condition was that strike action is paused so those discussions can take place in good faith and without disruption.

This was the same offer, and the same condition, made to unions representing nurses, ambulance workers and physiotherapists. Those unions accepted that offer, paused their strikes and are now negotiating on behalf of their members in private.

The NEU instead seems focused on strikes and all the needless disruption that brings.

This morning I have written to the unions again to invite them to have those talks on Wednesday and Thursday this week – all they need to do is call off strikes which are unnecessary and benefit no one.

The single best thing the NEU could do for both its members and for children and young people would be to sit down and talk about pay.

I will continue doing everything I can to end the disruption your family is facing as quickly as possible, particularly because I know exams for older pupils are coming up fast.

I hope any arrangements you make this week mean that pupils’ education can continue – even if not in the classroom – and that the next time I write it will be with news that this disruption has been brought to an end.

Yours sincerely,

The Rt Hon Gillian Keegan MP
Secretary of State for Education

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 11:22

You have provided nothing to show anything otherwise here, Clav.

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 11:23

Margaritawithlime
Read here

Indeed - the last line of your link reads;
But that doesn’t change the fact that teachers are paid for their holidays.

Callmenat · 15/03/2023 11:30

Macaroni46 · 15/03/2023 11:19

@Callmenat
To quote you:
"Teachers get paid enough. Throw in huge job certainty and very generous pensions and I don't think they realise how good they have actually have it. I agree that there are alot of issues in eduction but the strikes aren't helping things. Money doesn't grow on trees."
Maybe you should train as a teacher yourself seeing as you think the pay & conditions are so good?

Don't need to as I'm happy with my role and industry. My point still stands though.

Alexandra2001 · 15/03/2023 11:31

Callmenat · 15/03/2023 08:52

I would rather funding go to childcare than teacher salaries. I think their package and salaries are very good. It's a different opinion to yours admittedly and to resort to calling people fuckwits makes me hope you're not teaching my kids.

Show quote history

Teacher pensions are nothing like they used to be, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous as you might say!

No point funding childcare if there is no staff to look after these 1 and 2 year olds.... looking after children in this age group is very people intensive.

Its the same old.. you can throw money at all these issues the country faces but without staff... it really will not solve the underlying issues.

People can earn more in less stressful employment or in the case of teachers/healthcare staff.. move abroad.

The country cannot progress without an educated and skilled workforce and early years through to 6th form and FE/HE is vital or we remain a low wage/growth and productivity country.

Priorities? with the Government it seems to be to spend £2bn on increasing pension allowances... yeah someone with a £1m pension pot is going to go back to work to increase that pot... laughable.

Maximo2 · 15/03/2023 11:32

Not sure it’s true that parental support has dwindled….

To ask why the NEU aren’t sitting down and talking about pay?
Alexandra2001 · 15/03/2023 11:40

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 11:23

Margaritawithlime
Read here

Indeed - the last line of your link reads;
But that doesn’t change the fact that teachers are paid for their holidays.

Irrelevant.

Its the overall salary across 12 months that pays the rent/mortgage etc let alone pay for a holiday or a car.. which i believe you think people working in the public sector shouldn't have.

Keagan, should she be sacked, would still be on 3x the starting salary of a teacher and could following Bojo and May at the after dinner speech circuit, write a book or join her husband as a company director, whilst being a civil servant, award the company he is a director at, a £24m contract... not that he had anything to do with that... oh no.

Margaritawithlime · 15/03/2023 11:46

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 11:23

Margaritawithlime
Read here

Indeed - the last line of your link reads;
But that doesn’t change the fact that teachers are paid for their holidays.

Are you not paid for yours?
maybe you should become a teacher.

Macaroni46 · 15/03/2023 11:48

@Callmenat

"Don't need to as I'm happy with my role and industry. My point still stands though."

Lucky you.

Your point doesn't stand because most teachers are not happy with their role in terms of pay and conditions. That's why (in case you haven't noticed) there's a recruitment and retention crisis.

Maximo2 · 15/03/2023 11:57

It’ll click eventually

<waits for Callmenat to join the dots>

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 12:01

Margaritawithlime
maybe you should become a teacher

Why? I don't need to earn an extra £43,800 per annum.

Margaritawithlime · 15/03/2023 12:04

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 12:01

Margaritawithlime
maybe you should become a teacher

Why? I don't need to earn an extra £43,800 per annum.

Oh no my love, you’d be on £28,000

GuyFawkesDay · 15/03/2023 12:19

Not unqualified.

Only £28k after your PGCE or other year.

£19230 for you. Sorry.

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 12:22

Margaritawithlime
Oh no my love, you’d be on £28,000

I was referring to your salary. I believe the new starting salary for primary school teachers is being raised to £30,000 - sounds pretty good to me if I was still in my early 20s and looking for a job.

GuyFawkesDay · 15/03/2023 12:24

You don't just get a £28 teaching job in your early 20s "looking for for a job".

You need to do a postgraduate year. Otherwise it's £19k unqualified teacher scale.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 12:27

I believe the new starting salary for primary school teachers is being raised to £30,000 - sounds pretty good to me

And yet applications for primary school teacher trainees for September is down 15% on this time last year.

It's like all these people asserting that teaching is well paid and so on haven't actually paid attention to the fact that people don't want to be teachers and that this is a crisis in education.

Margaritawithlime · 15/03/2023 12:33

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 12:22

Margaritawithlime
Oh no my love, you’d be on £28,000

I was referring to your salary. I believe the new starting salary for primary school teachers is being raised to £30,000 - sounds pretty good to me if I was still in my early 20s and looking for a job.

Absolutely. I’d welcome and enjoy supporting young teachers who want to be part of this noble and amazing job,
unfortunately numbers applying to train are way down and recent research/ surveys suggest nearly 44% of current teachers plan to quit by 2027.
A well paid job? Perhaps. Though in comparison to my university friends I’m paid by far the lowest in comparison.
An easy one? Not at all.

But I repeat. This is not only about wages.

Macaroni46 · 15/03/2023 12:35

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 12:27

I believe the new starting salary for primary school teachers is being raised to £30,000 - sounds pretty good to me

And yet applications for primary school teacher trainees for September is down 15% on this time last year.

It's like all these people asserting that teaching is well paid and so on haven't actually paid attention to the fact that people don't want to be teachers and that this is a crisis in education.

For me and most of my colleagues, it's less about pay and more about untenable workload and poor working conditions, lack of funding within schools and how this impacts on SEND and behaviour within the classroom. The erosion of external services so that more and more responsibility is foisted on teachers. The ridiculous pressures from Ofsted have a lot to answer for. Anc then there's parental attitude. I'd leave tomorrow if I could. Used to love teaching but it's breaking me now.

Callmenat · 15/03/2023 12:36

Macaroni46 · 15/03/2023 11:48

@Callmenat

"Don't need to as I'm happy with my role and industry. My point still stands though."

Lucky you.

Your point doesn't stand because most teachers are not happy with their role in terms of pay and conditions. That's why (in case you haven't noticed) there's a recruitment and retention crisis.

Most people aren't happy with their salary and retention and recruitment issues are across numerous sectors including mine. Staff shortage reasons are far more nuanced than just salary. I do believe that teachers earn a good wage and have other benefits including job security and excellent pensions.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 12:40

Staff shortage reasons are far more nuanced than just salary.

Indeed, but when there have been real terms pay cuts every year since 2010, one might suspect that there might be a problem with pay too.

Working conditions need more staff to improve. We can't hire more staff on the pay that is being offered, therefore pay needs to increase. And that includes pay for support staff.

Piggywaspushed · 15/03/2023 12:46

Redundancies are on the rise in education nat.

Evvyjb · 15/03/2023 12:53

My school has had 3 rounds of redundancies in the last 10 years. Some departments (art, drama, music, tech) have completely gone (or, at least, there are no actual qualified teachers in those areas). Elsewhere there's a constant churn of trainees who don't stay (in the profession) beyond yr3.

In order to start addressing this and making things better we need more staff. To get over the initial hurdle and start improving conditions we need more staff - and to get them in we need pay which is in line with inflation and isn't taken from increasingly over-stretched budgets.

MrsHamlet · 15/03/2023 12:56

Callmenat · 15/03/2023 07:19

Not being goady but I think teachers need to get out their bubble, realise how good they have it and get back to work and stop damaging the kids eduction who have already had a few turbulent years.

Any post which starts "I'm not being goady" is very clearly goady.
I'm not damaging education. The government is.

Clavinova · 15/03/2023 12:57

GuyFawkesDay
Otherwise it's £19k unqualified teacher scale

What a pity I don't need a job.

noblegiraffe
And yet applications for primary school teacher trainees for September is down 15% on this time last year

The primary school postgraduate targets achieved in 20/21 and 21/22 were both 120% + I believe.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 13:00

They might have been, Clav but primary school trainee applications dropping by 15% when NQT pay is rising to £30,000 isn't a good sign, is it?

And you'll be forced to agree that secondary school trainee figures are set to be appalling, and were last year too.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2023 13:20

Oh and just checked, you inexplicably left out 22/23, the most recent figures, where only 93% of the target was met for primary. And so we're 15% down on a missed target.