Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it time to defund TFL

51 replies

titbumwillypoo · 13/03/2023 18:02

Inspired by recent threads that proclaim "I don't use it, so why should I have to pay for it?" Isn't it time Transport For London was privatised. The majority of people in this country may never use the Tube or London buses so why are hardworking tax payers having to prop up a service that only serves a small percentage of the UK population? I see no reason why the profit motive cannot be introduced to TFL and as we have seen from other industries such as rail, mail, water, power and telecoms privatization brings in investment and improves customer satisfaction.
AIBU - Don't be daft, it would punish the poor and decimate much of London.
AINBU People shouldn't have to pay towards services they don't use.

OP posts:
sashagabadon · 13/03/2023 18:04

I’m pretty sure tfl is self sufficient money wise. One of the only public transport networks that is!
at least it was before covid and Sadiq told everyone off for using the tube!

adagio · 13/03/2023 18:06

surely it’s not a race to the bottom? I’ve been to London once when I was about 8 so have precisely zero benefit from it, but even I’m not sure the solution to all the uk economic woes is to stop supporting a non profit transport provider.

whatkatydid2013 · 13/03/2023 18:08

Surely we need to be funding mass transport more in rest of the country not less in London. Is it really funded by those outside London anyway? I thought the city’s tax contributions were high enough that people living there put more in than they get out?

PenCreed · 13/03/2023 18:08

By this logic, we shouldn’t fund eg schools because I, a hard working tax payer, don’t have children so won’t use them. Transport in London is already expensive, even subsidised. Improve funding across the board, not decimate that system.

DismantledKing · 13/03/2023 18:11

and as we have seen from other industries such as rail, mail, water, power and telecoms privatization brings in investment and improves customer satisfaction.

well that’s bollocks for a start. The trains don’t work, electricity and gas prices are far higher than in Europe, and the water companies are pumping shit into the rivers and sea.

MissDollyMix · 13/03/2023 18:13

I’m not a Londoner, live on the other side of the country, but I visit London pretty regularly and from what I can see TFL works pretty well. London transport is the best in the country. Surely we should be trying emulate the model not destroying it simply to ensure that London’s public transport is as bad as the rest of the country.

cinci · 13/03/2023 18:13

So you don't think we should ever find anything outside of our immediate local area then?

Even if you never visit London, I don't get what the issue is with finding public transport, I really don't.

cinci · 13/03/2023 18:14

Funding!!

Whatsshecalled · 13/03/2023 18:15

"...and as we have seen from other industries such as rail, mail, water, power and telecoms privatization brings in investment and improves customer satisfaction." What really? Where is the evidence for any of this? My work is very closely related to water industry where privatisation had been an absolute disaster for all and from the outside energy and rail seem to be similar failures. Id be happy to be proved wrong though.

Astralitzia · 13/03/2023 18:16

Ok great, does that mean London can stop funding the rest of the country then?

cinci · 13/03/2023 18:18

Astralitzia · 13/03/2023 18:16

Ok great, does that mean London can stop funding the rest of the country then?

Was just typing this out. So true. That won't go down well. Also we need more public transport, not making it harder/more expensive, so hugely counter-intuitive

namechange9374 · 13/03/2023 18:19

After seeing first hand what privatisation does to public transport definitely not! (I'm not from London btw). Government have realised this and are starting to give more control back to governing bodies.

Before Covid it was self sufficient not sure anymore.

TheTurn0fTheScrew · 13/03/2023 18:19

whatkatydid2013 · 13/03/2023 18:08

Surely we need to be funding mass transport more in rest of the country not less in London. Is it really funded by those outside London anyway? I thought the city’s tax contributions were high enough that people living there put more in than they get out?

Yup, this. It's ridiculous that a city as big as Manchester doesn't even have integrated ticketing, which means you pay a ridiculous premium if your journey entails a combination of train/tram/bus.

Nevermind31 · 13/03/2023 18:20

i’m a Londoner, so hugely biased- but doesn’t London pump enormous amounts of money into the rest of the country?

Astralitzia · 13/03/2023 18:21

Nevermind31 · 13/03/2023 18:20

i’m a Londoner, so hugely biased- but doesn’t London pump enormous amounts of money into the rest of the country?

Yes. London subsidises the rest of the UK.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/23/uk-budget-deficit-grows-to-more-than-10bn-as-people-spend-less

SocksAndTheCity · 13/03/2023 18:22

Nevermind31 · 13/03/2023 18:20

i’m a Londoner, so hugely biased- but doesn’t London pump enormous amounts of money into the rest of the country?

Yes it does. And the public transport in the rest of the country being almost unanimously shite is not the fault of either Londoners or TfL.

viques · 13/03/2023 18:26

titbumwillypoo · 13/03/2023 18:02

Inspired by recent threads that proclaim "I don't use it, so why should I have to pay for it?" Isn't it time Transport For London was privatised. The majority of people in this country may never use the Tube or London buses so why are hardworking tax payers having to prop up a service that only serves a small percentage of the UK population? I see no reason why the profit motive cannot be introduced to TFL and as we have seen from other industries such as rail, mail, water, power and telecoms privatization brings in investment and improves customer satisfaction.
AIBU - Don't be daft, it would punish the poor and decimate much of London.
AINBU People shouldn't have to pay towards services they don't use.

8 million or so people live in Greater London, millions more commute in, or visit regularly, annually, or once in a lifetime. That is actually a sizeable proportion of the population. And we have visitors from around the world who add to the wealth of the nation. I am a Londoner and am happy for all these people to come to my area, spend their money, use my roads, litter my parks and block my pavements. If they want to get about they need to use one of the most comprehensive public transport systems in the world. TfL is not perfect but it is running a complex and mostly well integrated system in an old, awkward, historically layered city with a river running slap bang through the middle of it.

Cazziebo · 13/03/2023 18:29

I travel extensively for work and London has the most efficient transport system in the UK. It's affordable and efficient and easy to navigate for Londoners and out of towners alike. It probably adds loads of tourist money to the capital from which the rest of the country benefit from.

More cities/counties should follow London's example - don't bin TfL.

viques · 13/03/2023 18:30

And do you really think privatisation has improved the rail and postal systems, not to mention the folly of selling most of our utility companies to foreign companies so any profit they make are diverted from the UK rather than being reinvested in improvements in UK infrastructure .

Original poster
titbumwillypoo · 13/03/2023 19:00

I think it would be fair to say that London is only in the position to pay so much in tax due to the historical over investment in all aspects of life in London. Maybe if the rest of the country had seen equal investment they would be doing as well?

OP posts:
SocksAndTheCity · 13/03/2023 19:03

Yeah. What did the Romans ever do for us?

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/03/2023 19:08

titbumwillypoo · 13/03/2023 19:00

I think it would be fair to say that London is only in the position to pay so much in tax due to the historical over investment in all aspects of life in London. Maybe if the rest of the country had seen equal investment they would be doing as well?

No, it's because the financial sector is based there. We could have chosen to put the seat of government separately to the seat of money as Germany and Italy did with Frankfurt and Milan, but we didn't.

The services sector is what brings in all the cash.

Whether that's the right thing to do I don't know. But that's what exists so TFL is funded by the people who use it.

Womencanlift · 13/03/2023 19:11

YABU.

If you want to go down that route, the majority of the UK will not benefit from HS2 (when it starts again). So why are they paying for that?

Grumpybutfunny · 13/03/2023 19:13

Nope I live about as far north as you can get before you hit Scotland yet still believe TFL should be funded. London is the financial hub of the UK and should be our focus for growth

Sunnysunbun · 13/03/2023 19:15

No.
Everything privatised is crap. EVERYTHING